Large Scale Maps Created 17 years ago2007-07-30 21:58:07 UTC by aaron_da_killa

I was wondering if there is anyway that you can expand the grid in hammer 3.5 so that there is more building space. I know that for the source version of hammer the grid space is gigantic and you know, I would like to get that much space for half-life 1.

Using that amount of space is generally NOT a good idea, especially in HL1.

Even if it's not just one massive box, huge maps tend to reach engine limits, have long load times, and take ages to compile.

I'm makeing a mod and in one level there is this highway bridge that you get on. The highway bridge is very high up in the sky and there is fog so the visible distance is about 3000 units. Ir would be nice to walk along the bridge without hitting a level transition every say 5000 units. Compile times dont bother me and I can override the engine limits (other than the grid size) to make this level. As for the loading times, i'm pretty sure it will still be less than half-life 2.

dont make the bridge so big... you could always find some use for the func_teleport...

As for the loading times, i'm pretty sure it will still be less than half-life 2.

Depends, if you've got the computer for it Source maps can load within 30 seconds.

The bridge has to be big. The whole city is of a very large scale. And how would I use the teleporter?

What kind of bridge is bigger than the grid provided? That's massive even for a realistically proportioned bridge.

Source maps only take a long time to load with 256MB of RAM.

After I cleaned up my system with 512MB and a 5400RPM drive, HL2 levels load in ~30 seconds.

About using a teleport entity:

It's like that infinite stairway in Super Mario 64. You make a teleport at the end that brings you back to the beginning. Thus, the bridge becomes a loop.

Its not that the bridge is big, but its long and it would be annyoing for the player to keep running into level transitions

Heh thats interesting about the teleporter. hmmmmm

You'll have to maintain the illusion of a long bridge though.

It wouldn't work too great. The play would know exactly when they were teleported because you have to set a direction for the player to face after teleporting, and more than likely that direction won't line up exactly with the direction the player was facing before.
Rumpel tried this illusion in AOM. Didn't work out so perfectly for his mod either.

It's like that infinite stairway in Super Mario 64. You make a teleport at the end that brings you back to the beginning. Thus, the bridge becomes a loop.

The teleports use point entities so visually it would be horrible. You would keep jumping to wherever the teleport point was placed. Also, how would he get off the other end? Hmmm?

Half-Life one would have major trouble rendering that kind of environment. However, like Worldcrafter said, a bridge that size is unneccesary.

If its just for show you'll have to swallow your pride and make something less impressive.

If its to make the bridge section last a really long time for the player just put more challenges in along the way. HL2's bridge level lasted a good 10 minutes or so due to combat in an awkward environment and so on. Just make the section more challenging for the player and give it 2 levels (Main bridge and foundations undersection) and have the player go up and down to avoid obsticles. It would be far more challanging and entertaining than simply running along a really long bridge.

Even if there was the slightest chance that you could pull this off right, I don't think it wouldn't look believable at all. The teleport idea sounds incredibly hacky to me. Besides that, this bridge you're talking about must be absolutely gigantic... like, bigger than it would be in real life. Mind revealing what you're trying to pull off here?

Large scale outdoor areas just DO NOT work with bsp's. They don't work well for Gldsrc, they don't work well for Source.

Right, but that's never stopped anybody from creating environments that look big. That's where you can excel if you really want to.

Large scale outdoor areas just DO NOT work with bsp's. They don't work well for Gldsrc, they don't work well for Source.

Lol biggest map ever

If you could use fog, this would be a lot easier. Like others have suggested, you're going to have to throw in some obstacles to stop the player from simply running from end to end. If this is an action mod, you could try a break in the bridge and a puzzle involving how to cross the gap.

The problem with large maps like that is you need to bring the fog/cull distance in so close it looks bad, and severely tone down the brush and texture detail. Like I said, it does not do large maps well.

The problem with large maps like that is you need to bring the fog/cull distance in so close it looks bad, and severely tone down the brush and texture detail. Like I said, it does not do large maps well.

Ok bad example. Self glorification is bad.
However...

ARGUMENT
IS
DEBUNKED!
Ts_urbannights is a beautful map for its size, and even source maps with ts_urbannights' incredible "playing volume" are far and few between.

whats ts? lawl

noob ----->

I definitely got that phrase backwards there... whatever.

You there! Aaron! Add some obstacles god dammit!

ts_urbannights works because it's Manhattan-ish.

It works because it makes me hard.

World Crafter: That's hardly large enough, it's divided up by geometry that blocks visibility and hides the distance culling. We're talking maps that are absolutely wide open.

EDIT: Just look at how scrappy the HL2 coastal/highway maps turned out - blurred textures, simple brushwork, chunky displacements, unnatural fog.

I can't talk right now, I have a boner.

Oooo.. k.

Moving on.

Basically, without someway to block the distance culling, you cannot pull of an enourmous bridge with acceptable visuals and performance.

Wow heaps of replys guys good job !

Anyways as a guide it would be about as big as the bridge in half-life 2, probley as long to, 10 minutes or shorter. Its theamed in a city Called "Hexam" a fictinal city in my mod 'reddawn'. The City is huge, like much bigger than any other city in real life and I think I have pulled of this theame quite well. The Bridge is extreamly high so not many buildings are visable. There is fog to so I can have a draw distance. I just think it would be annoying for the player to run into several trigger_changelevels while on the bridge, unlike the Bridge in half-life 2 where there was like only one, or none at all I cant remember.

But I have also encounted a problem. Its night time when youre on the bridge and the fog looks terriable at night. I'm using spirit of Half-life's fog and yeah.

P.S The bridge is there to demonstrate the Large Scale of this city, is cool and would be really cool ....... runs away

By aaron_da_killa at 2007-07-30

This is kinda a picture of what I am trying to achieve. Excuse my super cool, awesome artistic skillz.

Sorry for double posting.

EDIT: Just look at how scrappy the HL2 coastal/highway maps turned out - blurred textures, simple brushwork, chunky displacements, unnatural fog.

On the coast levels, I turned up my settings from 1024x768, trilinear, high models & textures, etc. to 1280x1024 and 2x AA/AF. Same 25-35 fps on a MX 440. Yay for shitty looking levels

Wow, I have to turn all my settings down low to be able to play half-life 2 and the coastal/highway maps looked awsome. Just as detailed, mabye, as the rest of the game. The fog looked good imo. Probley because of the low settings

When it comes to bridges I reckon Halo 2 had a pretty cool bridge. It was massive! The bridge level on Black was good too but I noticed something on theirs. They had giant barriers blocking the player's view but you had to navigate between them to continue on, here's a crappy example:

| |

--- |

| |
| ------|
| |

See, and I noticed a slight pause as the level transitioned to the next one when you passed through the blockades. In Black, the next level was pre-loaded so it would quickly jump to the next one and remove the last one to save memory, I know you don't want to use change_level triggers but use this method and you wont have to make much of a bridge past the blockade, reducing vis distance and giving you more map space.

If it's about the size of the bridge in HL2 you hardly need to use that much space.

In the source mod eternal silence they scaled the space areas down to 1/40 to make it possible to build the massive areas (as it was space you don't notice the lack of detail and as there were only a few prop models for ships to be rendered at a time they are fairly high poly)

Mayby for a massive bridge you could scale the level down to say 1/2 with some codeing? In a large open area you are never going to be able to have the detail that requires really small brush based objects anyway.
(just be sure to scale all the models you need down as well unless you want a 14ft high security gaurd or something lol)

modify FOV