How do you rate maps? Created 12 years ago2012-06-21 21:11:50 UTC by Archie Archie

Created 12 years ago2012-06-21 21:11:50 UTC by Archie Archie

Posted 12 years ago2012-06-21 21:18:33 UTC Post #307318
Interesting topic in the comments of Dimbark's latest map regarding the value given to TWHL's mysterious five stars.

Personally I think it's a bad idea to be subjective with rating. If it's someone's first map and it's good for a first map then I think rating it, say, 4 stars kinda undermines the rating system, because a genuinely great map which also gets 4 stars will lose its value.

Here's what I consider the stars to mean - do you agree/disagree? How do you rate? Do you think it should be on a subjective per-map basis where you take into consideration the mapper's relative experience, or do you think it should be objective and a rating should be consistent throughout the vault?
User posted image
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-21 21:19:52 UTC Post #307319
You should add a platnium star, for the masterpieces that are perfect.
Stojke StojkeUnreal
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-21 21:21:17 UTC Post #307320
That'd be 5 stars + MotM award.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-21 21:21:38 UTC Post #307321
Personally I don't like the 1-5 scale and because of this I rarely rate. If you were to ask me, I'd say 1-10 was more appropriate.

The gaps between the stars are too big, just look at your own interpretation. The difference between 2 and 3 seems pretty big to me, it went from "not worth playing" to "solid and decent".

I believe that if we were to increase the width of the spectrum we would end up with more fair ratings, including for those who've just posted their first real map..
Madcow MadcowSpy zappin my udder
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-21 22:08:36 UTC Post #307322
that's a great description Archie!

Maybe it would be helpful to combine that as a "legend" in the map comments somehow, so when people are rating we are all on a level understanding of the star ratings ;)
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-21 22:52:26 UTC Post #307323
I don't believe in rating nor I do in comments. A movie is meant to be watched. A song is meant to be listened to. A map is meant to be played. Not rated...
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-21 22:58:16 UTC Post #307324
Nice description Archie. Oh boy, my last one was 5 star and motm. Platinum star! But I even still see huge room for improvement. It's easy to idealize what is the utmost worst, and that is "nothing" But it is hard to imagine what is the "best". Because it is definitely not "everything".
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-21 23:15:02 UTC Post #307327
@Bruce: So you don't believe in constructive criticism either then? That's what it's all for. To help people develop their skills.
Madcow MadcowSpy zappin my udder
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 02:06:41 UTC Post #307329
@Madcow

I think 1-5 is fine. It's not really a big leap.

It's rather simple
5 = Just about perfect
4 = Very Good
3 = Alright
2 = Not Good, Not Bad..
1 = Bad
Dimbeak DimbeakRotten Bastard
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 10:01:39 UTC Post #307334
Constructive bullfuckingshittism.
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 10:05:05 UTC Post #307335
For those of us who aren't perfect. obviously you'd never need it Bruce because everything you make is flawless.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 10:09:36 UTC Post #307336
genuinely laugh snorts
monster_urby monster_urbyGoldsourcerer
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 10:28:23 UTC Post #307337
Not sure if joking.... or...
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 10:47:53 UTC Post #307338
FYI i cant take bruce seriously anyway, with a KISS avatar.
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 10:49:31 UTC Post #307339
Well then you obviously don't know Bruce. He's never done anything imperfectly in his entire life.
Notewell NotewellGIASFELFEBREHBER
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 12:06:17 UTC Post #307342
Truly he is a god amongst men.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 12:41:12 UTC Post #307344
Bruce almighty.
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 18:13:22 UTC Post #307346
Edit: summed up version: "Qualify the audience's credibility via skills, personality, understanding, taste etc. and apply it to what you can take out of their criticism."

Yea, cc can sometimes nullify a map's magical powers. But if you seek to better yourself, you should learn to handle it.

In taking cc you usually want to qualify the audience and understand where they are coming from. A random hl player "not mapper". An experienced mapper. Someone with tons of skill, etc. Do they understand what they are talking about.

Then understand that they may not understand reasons you chose to do certain things. If they comment on things you think they don't understand why you did. Explain yourself. It's not being deffensive, it's being realistic. This is when criticizers sometimes think your being deffensive. Try not to sound as such.

Understand the audience's personality, taste, style etc. Understanding everything gives you a better picture as to why they say certain things and which things will become relevant.

The whole time you are qualifying them to understand how credible they are and what not. In the end, everyone's opinion matters but you have to come to some understanding.

Like when Dimbark rated my goldsource map, he wasn't even rating the actual part of the map that mattered because he didn't understand it for some reason "didn't read comp. description or something. I had to qualify his cc to understand that it wasn't relevant or credible at all and I had to explain to him why.

One time, someone said my map was complete garbage and shouldn't get the good rating it did based on the screen shots. When I was younger I didn't know how to handle this but if it happened to me now I would understand that his cc wasn't credible at all because it was only based on the screen shot. Others even called him out on his bs.

The bottom line is cc is very beneficial if handled properly and if you want to better your skills. But don't let it offend you. Simply understanding it by qualifying it will eliminate this. And as always, people will have feelings and rating towards your map whether they post it or not. Telling them not to do so simply says you cannot handle it and that people's opinions don't matter to you.

If you really don't want people to rate or comment I think that's fine. But it simply says you are not willing to learn from others because you don't want to. To me it seems like a lack of self motivation. But, perhaps it's something else.

Pardon that rant sandwich. I need to learn to get my message across faster.

Edit: I usally don't rate a map unless I want to give it 5 stars. Rating under such I feel can be unnmotivational to many and don't want to do that. Instead in such cases, I prefer to comment basically why it isn't a 5 star map pointing out goods and bads.

1 star= 1-20, 2 star= 21=40, 3 star= 41-60, 4 star= 61-80, 5 star= 81-100. I think a 10 star rating system with incriments of 10 would be more appropriate. With 5 star rating, people usually think that 5 stars is "perfect" but realistically this could be close to a B.
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 19:29:42 UTC Post #307354
What Archie and Zeeba summed up is correct, but remember that a 5-star system is prone to human errors. I'm always tempted not to give under 4 stars because most of the maps look good and I don't want to leave a disappointed mapper.
Striker StrikerI forgot to check the oil pressure
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 20:01:31 UTC Post #307355
The last thing zeeba said is exactly what I'm talking about. 5 stars makes it too imprecise. You could still translate the 1-10 rating into 5 stars, so you wouldn't really have to change that much.
Madcow MadcowSpy zappin my udder
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 21:18:13 UTC Post #307356
Yea, I guess it's like the grading system of a,b,c,d,f. It's like a 5 star rating system. The letters are incriments of 2/10 and the +,- are incriments of 1/10.
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-22 23:21:58 UTC Post #307358
Rating systems don't work well on most websites, but for TWHL in particular it is a good idea to attempt to unify the rating system, because it is already better than rating systems of most websites.

On most websites (and I have observed this firsthand), they are filled with little kids maybe around 12 years old or something. Moddb is a perfect example of this. Basically, these juveniles tend to have a strictly black & white rating system, where something they like = 10/10 and something they didn't like = 1/10. As you can imagine, this will horrifically mess up the rating system, not to mention the possibility of serving as unhelpful and destructive criticism (and usually no explanation is given with these ratings.) I think TWHL is great to have a group of mature honest people who actually want to spend the time to improve something as pointless as a rating system. This action in itself makes TWHL's rating system less pointless and more useful than those of most websites. If you actually read the whole thing then you must be really bored. As I'm writing this I am also getting bored. So here's a story about a boy named Jim. Jim wasn't really important to the story anyway. The bottom line turned out to be the he was impatient and couldn't wait for the next mapping competition to be announced. And that's why TWHL's rating system should be examined and unified as suggested by this thread.
Posted 12 years ago2012-06-23 07:07:09 UTC Post #307361
Then Youtube considers us all children?
Anyway, the point you are underlying 2muchvideogames is excellent. It's something I felt but didn't know how to put into words.
I think TWHL is great to have a group of mature honest people who actually want to spend the time to improve something as pointless as a rating system. This action in itself makes TWHL's rating system less pointless and more useful than those of most websites
Striker StrikerI forgot to check the oil pressure
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