Well just look at that Created 19 years ago2005-01-30 20:40:03 UTC by Unknown Genius

Actually I've heard of another hypothesis, the world in the future will be ruled by damn dirty apes!

No one in my country claimed responsability for the train bombings. It was made by terrorist groups from Morocco

Does Morocco's government openly sponsor terrorism and deny its citizens (especially women) any rights or protection like the Taliban of Afganistan did? Did Morocco's military invade it's neighbors and threaten to do it again and murder and torture countless of its own people like Irac did? Does Morocco execute citizens for speaking out against the government which took away their freedom and gave them no rights like Irac and Afganistans rulers did? Nuff said. Try to make legitimate compairisons in the future, k?

There are countries that would take much less resources to free than Iraq or Afghanistan. You just proved me right by saying the US choses the targets that will give them advantage, which was my point, thanks

Tell me which countries would take much less resources to free. It's easy just to spout off about something like you know it, but it's much more difficult to back it up.

And as I said, since the US can't right every wrong in the world (nor should they be expected to), why should they throw their resources into helping certain people if those actions will be detrimental to them. If helping people who are in need also helps you, doesn't it make so much more sense to help them first? Then you will be in a better position to continue helping other people. What you seem to expect of a country is to give away all its resources and do nothing to help itself. That's pretty stupid. Doing things your way, any country in the world would go instantly go bankrupt and become in need, instead of being able to give aid. And sorry, but what I think about the US policy on helping countries in no way proves anything you said.

Those are not my ancestors

Are you a Spanish citizen? If so, you Spanish murdered, tortured, and enslaved millions of Indians in both South and North America. Try reading a non-Spanish account of what you people did to the Indians, you will find that you "mixed" with a very tiny proportion compared to those you exterminated.

you havent made a comment about the Indian situation in North America so I understand you accept the facts

The last time I checked, Mexico, where your Cortez invaded and exterminated many millions of people, is in North America. Didn't you know? And yes, many other European countries also came over and murdered Indians and started wars with them. But everything I've read on the subject shows Spain to be the worst offender, by far.

If Spain hadnt been in Mexico, today it would probably be just another part of the US where indians would have been again exterminated and the rest put in reserves.

Are you seriously comparing the sensless murder of many many millions of people just for gold, to putting Indians on a reservation? By the time the US was even a country, you people had brought the indians to the verge of extinction, raped thousands of their women (but didn't claim the children), and enraged the few Indians that were left. How was the US supposed to deal with them?

Now I know it wasn't fair for the Indians to be taken off their land and put on reservations, but its better than murdering them all (Incas, NORTH American Aztecs, the Gaunches, and other extinct peoples and cultures come to mind) and taking away their culture (with your religion and "mixing") and diluting their race with your bastard children. How can you judge the way the US cleaned up your mess? Amazing.

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I personally do not believe anything until I've seen indesputable proof concerning it, not just speculation

Yes... like all those numbers of dead indians 5 century's ago... it's probably indisputable proof, TV stations probably were keeping record of deaths and stuff Stop contradicting yourself.

How is me saying what I think after reading numerous sources on the subject a contradiction? And you missed the whole point anyway. I brought up the Spanish murder of millions of Indians after you said that the US had killed 15,000 Iraqi civilians (1. Where do you get your numbers 2. All the insurgents are civilians, so what's your point?). I was just reminding you that when you killed all those many millions, no one was going to have freedom afterwards and you were killing them intentionally. So my point was basicly, don't act all high and mighty pointing your finger at America, when your country did much more horrible things than what the US is doing in Irac. Use some perspective.

No one asked for a "freedom force"

And no one asked you to butt in to a problem between the US and Irac. Why are some of you acting like the world police against the US? Seems kind of ironic, with your "stay out of conflicts" attitude that you should be so vocal against the US. If you think that whatever happens whithin a countries borders is none of your business, thats fine. If you want to sit back in your warm comfortable house and watch tv while millions of people are starving and being tortured and abused, that's up to you too. But other people might like to try to take care of problems before the broblem ends up on their doorstep.

the Bush administration has also fed the fire of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict these last two years

Oh, and what has the perfect government of Spain done to solve the crisis in Palestine?

Maybe they hide these type of FACTS in your news, and just talk about how happy iraquis are to have daily terrorist bombings

I guess your propiganda over there is all true and the propiganda over here is all false. What do you know of "my news"? What I mostly see in the news concerning Irac is when US and UK soldiers die, when terrorists kill Iraqis, when civilians are kidnapped and or murdered, when US soldiers behave badly and abuse prisoners, and sometimes when innocents are killed by the US or UK.

But what I saw earlier this week was millions of elated Iraqis taking to the street and taking their first steps of freedom. To see all those people who, under Sadam, cowered miserably, afraid to speak up for themselves or their family for fear that they would be jailed, tortured, or worse, get out and proudly let their voice be heard for the first time, it actually made me feel much better about the whole thing.

Now I want to hear your oppinion, U. Genius. I'm actually learning some facts I didnt know

Seems like it.

Comparing the Lochness monster and Bigfoot to something of such magnitude is deeply isulting. How dare you rubbish off the facts, evidence and unaswered questions concerning Bush's 9/11 agenda.

I believe there are many unanswered questions concerning 9/11, but speculation is far from being factual imo. And if you think about it, 4 years is faster than a blink of an eye when you think in terms of history. And since Bush can't be President ever again after 2008, it seems bizaar that he would or could mastermind a plan to fake attacks and kill Americans, just so he could be president for 4 more years. I mean, couldn't he just try to get re-elected more traditional ways. Why go to such an extreem?

It only takes minutes to get the jet fighters in the air to escort hijacked planes. The amount of time since they knew about the detour until the planes hit the buildings was more than enough to get the jets on the air, like the emergency procedure dictates.

Hmm, are you relying on the official government estimation of how long it takes to get fighters in the air, and of what the emergency procedures are in such cases? Strange that A. You would know that, and B. You would believe any official government reports. Go figure.

There are so many undisputable facts other than these.

Stories about meetings and money transfers, etc, are hardly indesputable facts. Were you there? Did you see it happen? Are there pictures of the events taking place? Are there audio recordings of these meetings? Those would be considered indesputable facts. Stuff you read on some website or in the newspaper hardly qualifies.

The pentagon was targeted by a missile and that missile struck an area on the opposite side to where Aschrofts headquaters were

So you guys really believe this stuff? I mean come on, In a city of millions of people, many tourists with cameras and camcorders, do you really for a second think that the government would take the chance of flying a missile into the pentagon where anyone could see it, snap a picture of it, or take a video it!? Get real. It was broad daylight. But if these are the type of indesputable facts that are out there, I guess you must be right (Actually that's sarcasm. An indisputable fact would be a photo of a US missile flying into the pentagon, but guess what. one doesn't exist. I have [/i]still[/i] yet to see any indesputable proof, only speculation, rumor, and stories).

Countries would eventually disappear, and the world would be ruled by big corporations and company's

Education and communication would make that outcome unlikely imo. I mean what educated and informed person would stand by for that. I know the wise Spanish would never let such a thing happen to them

It's likely to be ruled by big oil companies since the worlds industries will need it in the for-seeable future.

Well why don't all you superior countries full of people so much better, wiser, and more intelligent than Americans, devise inexpensive ways to run all our vehicles and other machines with water, the sun, or some other abundant inexpensive resource? Dont see any wars being fought over the sun or water.

America, a superpower, will eventually crumble.

They say nothing lasts forever. I think India has a chance at becomming a superpower, and China could probably take over the world if they wanted to, but I hope people learn to get along together and focus on common goals and beliefs instead of consentrating on differences. Feeding the hungry, healing the sick, educating the unedcated, and making sure everyone is guaranteed their basic human rights should be the goal, imo.

Oh, and what has the perfect government of Spain done to solve the crisis in Palestine? rolls eyes -

Hey, maybe little to nothing, but it's still better then encouraging the escalation of the conflict.

it actually made me feel much better about the whole thing.

Me as well.

I hope people learn to get along together and focus on common goals and beliefs instead of consentrating on differences. Feeding the hungry, healing the sick, educating the unedcated, and making sure everyone is guaranteed their basic human rights should be the goal, imo.

Agreed in full. Maybe some day...

I've got to agree with that point, Rabid.

Unknow Genious is implying that there were no Indians in the territory that is now the U.S, so since there were so very few, they were put in reserves, hehe nice try. Spain only came as far up as Mexico and some of the most southern states. Mmm, they probably used nukes to kill all the indians from New York to Utah, since they were never there.
It seems you really cant get it in your head that people in Spain dont feel related to those conquerors from 500 years ago. In a country with such a long history compared to others, it is very unlikely for anyone to be or feel guilty about things that some of its people did when they left Europe to satisfy their dreams, greed etc. Spain wasnt even a Democracy back then, so its really dumb to blame people for the decisions of medieval kings, but of course, you wouldnt have thought of that. Right now we are talking about free people in the US who vote they want their country to go to war, which has nothing to do with bloodshed, conquerings, adventure and greed in the 16th century. In a certain way, the part about greed is the same thing, but this time it's about black gold.
About the value of those meetings etc that are reported in web pages, I've said before that they offer thousands of dollars if you can prove them wrong (they have a lot of different sources from newsgroups all over the world). Of course, I think It's only happened once so far, and FTW Publications actually gave out the money they promised. But the rest are just facts.
And, Jazhel, I've been checking all the pentagon information. A flying craft did crash against the building, people did see an American Airlines jet flying in the are, but no witnesses actually saw that plane crashing. The size of the hole(s), the almost total lack of plane debris and many other things just prove that flight 77 didnt crash against the pentagon.
These things are not very surprising, if we remember that the US blew up their own battleship The Maine, so they could start a war with Spain around 1998. The explosion was done from the inside and Spain didnt and doesnt have suicide soldiers

sorry, its 1898

Are you a Spanish citizen? If so, you Spanish murdered, tortured, and enslaved millions of Indians in both South and North America. Try reading a non-Spanish account of what you people did to the Indians, you will find that you "mixed" with a very tiny proportion compared to those you exterminated.

Yes I'm sure Kasberg is capable of such horrors....idiot.

Unknown, your ignorance is laughable. You believe the official line of events which are more paranormal than any UFO sighting, ever!

There is no evidence to back the official line of events. The official line of events are sloppy, full of errors, and proveably false. And if you say well there is no evidence to show that 9/11 was an engineered event then your oppinon is based on your own refusal to believe that the government is capable of such horrors.

I firmly believe that the motive for the orchistration of 9/11 was to enforce the new anti-terror laws and martial law. (If you cannot see there is a police state then you are blind or foolish).

The Patriot Act is responsible for the loss of basic human rights in America and all throughout the controversial measures to 'protect' citizens from terrorism are terrorising human rights.

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act (as if the first Patriot Act wasnt enough) came about after 9/11 and so did the Homeland Security (which by the way allows for the power to arrest anyone who sells a 'Rubix Cube' copy in their toystore and taser elderly people, children and guys in wheelchairs who need to be 'detained'.)

(By the way, normal citizens who cause any act of crime which supposedly endangers the lives of others, such as smoking weed, can lead to terrorist allegations.)

If you want to agree with all the neocons Unknown Genious and refuse to believe that our rights and civil libeties were removes as a result of an engineered terrorist attack then so be it. But people are evolving and realising that we are basically being pissed all over by the government, and evolution does not stop at two thumbs by the way. Incase you didnt know.

Baffoon.

I firmly believe that the motive for the orchistration of 9/11 was to enforce the new anti-terror laws and martial law

I partially agree with Jahzel on that, but since I dont live in the States right now, I tend to look at the more global circumstances:
The U.S. government had foreknowledge of the World Trade Center attacks and chose not to stop them because it needed to secure public approval for a war that is now in progress.
It was designed to create a groundswell of public emotion so that the Wars of Crude Oil Acquisition that were already being planned could commence.

Very true.

Operation Free Iraqis?

• Operation Free Iraqi Oil and Conquer The Middle East

Unknow Genious is implying that there were no Indians in the territory that is now the U.S

Um, no. I never suggested that there were no Indians in the US. Is your argument so weak that you need to make stuff up?

Spain only came as far up as Mexico and some of the most southern states. Mmm, they probably used nukes to kill all the indians from New York to Utah, since they were never there.

And I never said Spain kiled all the Indians in North America either. Unlike some here, I don't make outragous claims just because they may make my argument seem better. Since you seem to have trouble remembering what I said, here:

And yes, many other European countries also came over and murdered Indians and started wars with them.

It seems you really cant get it in your head that people in Spain dont feel related to those conquerors from 500 years ago.

How convenient for you all to so easily be able to wash the blood of millions of innocents off your hands.

Right now we are talking about free people in the US who vote they want their country to go to war

Yes, you're right. Every man woman and child in America was given a ballot, and we all voted unanimously to kill Iraqi civillians. We're all just as bad as you say we are

But what I don't understand is, if America is so terrible and evil, why do you keep rewarding her? I hear lots of accusing, complaining, and whining about America, but I still see you and your countries handing over billions and billions and billions of dollars/euros to make america richer and richer.

It seems to me that the way to get the attention of a capitalist government would be to use money. Since, according to some, everyone else in the world hates America and doesn't like what she's doing, how long could America continue to be a global power if no one else would do business with her?

You all live in countries where you picked who would be in charge. Yet you and your countries continue to buy American products and services. You whiners seem like a bunch of hypocrits. With one hand, you point the finger at America, but with the other, you hand over your money.

Since the US couldn't be a global power without the support of many other nations in the world (including yours), and since you elected the leaders who are doing business with US, YOU are just as much to blame as anyone living in America for what the US government does. So go take that finger you been pointing, and stand infront of the mirror with it for a while, k?

I've said before that they offer thousands of dollars if you can prove them wrong (they have a lot of different sources from newsgroups all over the world).

Omg, so because you can't prove something false, it must be true?? Think about that premise for a second. OK, I say that the universe is really just some chemical reaction going on in a test tube in some gigantic labratory, JFK was really assasinated by an invisible time traveling robot from the future, and after you die you get reincarnated as an ant, that's why there are so many of them. I'll give you $1,000,000,000 if you can prove me wrong.

idiot... Unknown, your ignorance is laughable. You believe the official line of events which are more paranormal than any UFO sighting, ever!

Childish insults, and claiming I that believe something that I never said I believed, makes your argument weaker than it already is. So since you guys' positions are so weak, you have to say I said things that I never said? Sad.

And if you say well there is no evidence to show that 9/11 was an engineered event then your oppinon is based on your own refusal to believe that the government is capable of such horrors.

Sorry, I dont follow your logic. How is a lack of proof in any way related to my beliefs about my government (which I never stated, but you seem to have full knowledge of ) All I hear from you are stories and accusations, not one shred of actual proof. If this was a court case, there would have to be a verdict of not guilty, all your "evidence" is circumstantial and full of heresay.

I never said what I thought one way or the other, all I'm saying is that there's just no proof. It seems you and I have a different idea of what actual proof is. I think proof is something that is 100% undisputable (pictures of missiles hitting the pentagon, recordings of meetings of US officials planning the attacks, etc.). It appears that what you call proof is any old story that supports your position. Hmm, now which sounds more like the actual definition of proof?

I firmly believe that the motive for the orchistration of 9/11 was to enforce the new anti-terror laws and martial law. (If you cannot see there is a police state then you are blind or foolish).

If you can tell me there's a police state in my neighborhood from all the way over there, you got some phenominal eyesight.

The Patriot Act is responsible for the loss of basic human rights in America

What do you consider basic human rights? I can walk out my front door and scream and curse about the president and the government, and even burn a flag. Will I end up locked up, shot or decapitated? No, I still have my basic human rights, in fact, I have many more rights than just the most basic ones. You need to get outside in the real world more often and take some time off from the internet, you seem to have a very skewed view of reality.

And remember, YOU elected the people who are keeping America so powerfull. Quit yer bitching as long as you keep supporting the things you say you are so much against. The US would have [b]much[/] less power if your countries weren't stuffing so much money into her pockets. IMO, there are few things worse than a whining hypocrit. If you really see that there is a problem, do something about it, quit throwing rocks at America with one hand and money with the other.

How convenient for you all to so easily be able to wash the blood of millions of innocents off your hands.

Not our hands, the hands of the people who went there, stayed there, and are the ancestors of a lot of South Americans, not ours. I hope We dont hear anything else on that subject, I have explained it enough already. If you still dont understand it, I can make a diagram or something, I hope we dont get to that...

and after you die you get reincarnated as an ant, that's why there are so many of them. I'll give you $1,000,000,000 if you can prove me wrong

I dont see how those examples relate to anything... We are not talking about comparing speculation with speculation, we are talking about some facts the government has said, which dont match up and are more than very suspcious. Nothing suggests an invissible robot from the future murdered JFK, but there's so much that proves flight 77 didnt crash against the pentagon. There's your answer to that.

I think proof is something that is 100% undisputable

The only 100% undisputable thing we know is that we all eventually die some day. So lets imagine, someone says "A" and some says "B". There are 2 things that might prove "A" is right, but there are 10 things that might prove "B" is right. I dont think that "B" would be 100% undisputable, but al least I'de be much more convinced by "B", simple logic.

If you really see that there is a problem, do something about it, quit throwing rocks at America with one hand and money with the other

We are doing what we can, but the U.N is manipulated by the U.S
America is a friend, so its really dumb to think the world would stop economic relationships with the country just because of its political decisions. The U.S did that with Iraq, resulting in an economic embargo that has caused the death of more than 500.000 Iraqi children since 1990. Those are facts. I dont really know if Saddam has hurt Iraq the most
When It comes to friends, you also feel its your resposability to tell them when they make mistakes. Like they said in that Harry Potter film it takes courage to stand up to your enemies, but it takes more courage to stand up to your friends...
I still prefer American films over Spanish films, so I dont know why I would stop giving my money to American moviemakers, it's not their fault.

...pictures of missiles hitting the pentagon, recordings of meetings of US officials planning the attacks, etc.

I those existed, rest assured that the government would have done everything they could to stop them from reaching the public, its so obvious.

Kasberg, theres not even a point in wasting your time with this idiot. I'd would take hundreds of years to wake this guy up. His compartmentalised brain cannot withstand the truth that our government is a lying, c***sucking, murdering, corporate fascist piece of s**t that got away with killing the people that they rule. He's one of these yuppies that thinks that agreeing with government policy and not questioning it will get him a pat on the back - well it doesnt. Wake up fool.

Typical pro-establishment anti-human being American who lives in fairytale land dictated by the nonsense of mainstream media and propoganda.

Ok, it's getting kind of old and his arguments are always the same: Spanish are murderers, there's no 9/11 proof until the White House says so, etc LOL
You know what they say, ignorance is bliss .
I bet it hurts to accept your government tricked you. Denying it is probably a defense mechanism
(by the way, it's KasPerg, Jahzel :D)

Yeah you're absolutely right. But you can understand how much it hurts to see people totally unaware of the tyranny constantly being unfolded. It makes me physically sick to see people so blindfolded by the propoganda they see on CNN and all over the place. Even in toystores they sell lego 'surveillance vans that can spy into the bad guy's homes', police action figures with evil snarling grins, and I wish this wasn't true but unfortunately it is and it is happening today and will continue till the point that we are all given grey jumpsuits (Brave New World-like; already in future global governance proposals) forced vaccination (race Specific Bioweaponry that they will release and tell us that the only way to stop the epidemic is to be vaccinated and chipped and do as we are told and support a global governance because it will save us from the evil), implantable microchips to track our every move and to quote 'fight terrorism', forced detainment in compact cities (already set up in America incase of a code red emergency which they can easily trigger off by creating more problem-reaction-solution), seperation from our families, torture or death (torture is now quote 'a good way of extracting information') if we disagree with what the governments doing, it's just terrible. It's like a new Nazi Germany we are heading towards and it has to stop. I'm not gonna just sit and nod my head I'm gonna be informed and if possible inform others about this.

...I mean just look at what I've just found here, this is a CNN article 'Microchip implants may save lives one day'.

Also, look at this if you thought I was making it up, 'Lego: World City Police & Rescue'.

Take the criminals by surprise!

Stopping crime in World City is easy with a fully equipped Undercover Van and Police 4WD. The undercover policeman catches the crooks in the act from his van, and then the 4WD swoops in to arrest them! Includes 2 vehicles, 2 mini-figures, and accessories.

( http://www.lego.com/worldcity/default.asp?prodId=7034 )

When the 10-wheeler Surveillance Truck is on the scene, you know the police are on the job! Includes two police agent mini-figures.

Sorry to keep posting but look at this, 'The Globalist' ( http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=2546 )

Count how many times the term 'global society of states' is mentioned and also praised. Notice how they portray anyone who disagrees with a 'global society of states' as abnormal.

I've never read such utter trash, pro-new world order rubbish in my life. It's sickos like this bunch who want us all to be put in forced labour camps with the millitary making sure we don't complain.

wow, you are so right.

scary

Dr. Breen....

Well, since you've only responded to a few of my lesser points, I'll assume that you accept the rest.

Not our hands, the hands of the people who went there, stayed there, and are the ancestors of a lot of South Americans, not ours.

So A. no one ever came back from the Americas, and B. all the people who were responsible for the murduring came to America? What about those who were most responsible? What about those who were back in Spain giving the orders? Cmon, get real.

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and after you die you get reincarnated as an ant, that's why there are so many of them. I'll give you $1,000,000,000 if you can prove me wrong

I dont see how those examples relate to anything... We are not talking about comparing speculation with speculation

Well you were the one who tried to help his argument by suggesting that because certain groups offered money if they were proven wrong, this somehow meant that they were right. I was just pointing out the obvious error in your logic.

we are talking about some facts the government has said, which dont match up and are more than very suspcious.

If the government is covering up something, just how can you be so damned sure that they're covering up their involvement? Isn't it at least as likely that they're trying to cover up their incompitence in handling the matter? No, that doesn't sound quite as devious, we can't include that posibility.

Nothing suggests an invissible robot from the future murdered JFK, but there's so much that proves flight 77 didnt crash against the pentagon. There's your answer to that.

Again, we have different standards for what constitutes proof. I've heard only speculation, but to you, if it says what you want it to, it's proof. You notice I never say "the government's story is proof! But I hear you and the other guy clammering on about all these paranoid stories being proof. Do I need to post the definition of proof for you, or will you please just look it up so you start using the word properly?

There are 2 things that might prove "A" is right, but there are 10 things that might prove "B" is right. I dont think that "B" would be 100% undisputable, but al least I'de be much more convinced by "B", simple logic.

Again, your lack of understanding of what the word proof means comes to the surface. I am under the impression that if A contradicts B, and one is proven true, then the other must be false. You are speaking of "things" that prove both A and B true. Understanding what the word proof means, I know that what you suggest is impossible. Your "simple logic" is quite flawed.

We are doing what we can, but the U.N is manipulated by the U.S

Great excuse, but that has nothing to do with the fact that you chose your leaders, and your leaders do tons of business with, and therefore support, the US.

America is a friend, so its really dumb to think the world would stop economic relationships with the country just because of its political decisions.

If its political decisions include shitting on the rest of the world and murduring so many innocents just for money, like some have claimed, then why the hell would you support it? I mean, if your "friend" decided to take a shit on your bed, bang your gf, eat all your food, steal your money, and kill your neigbor, would you still support him?

The U.S did that with Iraq, resulting in an economic embargo that has caused the death of more than 500.000 Iraqi children since 1990.

I doubt 500,000 American children would die if the rest of the world sent the US a message by restricting trade. The US can produce more food than it needs.

I still prefer American films over Spanish films, so I dont know why I would stop giving my money to American moviemakers, it's not their fault.

So if Hitler made great films, you would support him by buying them, but hypocriticaly complain about him too? That proves my point. All some people want to do is blame and complain. If doing something to solve a problem includes the slightest discomfort for them (ie no hollywood movies) then to hell with helping.

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...pictures of missiles hitting the pentagon, recordings of meetings of US officials planning the attacks, etc.

I those existed, rest assured that the government would have done everything they could to stop them from reaching the public, its so obvious.

Just how could the government stop 1, 10, or 100 tourists who happened to snap a picture of a missile flying through the streets of downtown Washington DC in broad daylight? Don't you think some of them would have gone straight to the press and given/sold them the pictures and their accounts of what they saw? Or do you think everyone in America calls the government and asks them what they should do every time they walk out of their house?

Kasberg, theres not even a point in wasting your time with this idiot. I'd would take hundreds of years to wake this guy up. His compartmentalised brain cannot withstand the truth that our government is a lying, c***sucking, murdering, corporate fascist piece of s**t that got away with killing the people that they rule. He's one of these yuppies that thinks that agreeing with government policy and not questioning it will get him a pat on the back - well it doesnt. Wake up fool.

Yet another example of how this guy resorts to childish insults and name calling when faced with a rational argument.

Ok, it's getting kind of old and his arguments are always the same: Spanish are murderers

No, I was just using that fact to point out that your country purposely exterminated many millions of innocents just for gold, and you were trying to make the US look like demons for unintentionally possibly killing 15,000 (by your count) innocents. I just wanted you to use a little perspective when criticizing the US. But you missed the whole point and instead you first denied what your country did, then after you realized Spain did[/d] do what I said, you moved towards denying any connection to the people who did it. And actually, very little of my arguments deal with the Spanish murderers, but that's seems to be one of the few points you contend.

[quote]there's no 9/11 proof until the White House says so, etc LOL[/quote] Please show me anywhere where I said that what the government says is proof. That would make me sound as foolish as you appear to be, but only at the other end of the argument. You are the one claiming to have all the proof, not me.

[quote]You know what they say, ignorance is bliss .
I bet it hurts to accept your government tricked you. Denying it is probably a defense mechanism[/quote]
Once more, please show me anywhere where I said what I believe happened on 9/11, anywhere where I said the government's words are proof, or anywhere where I said any other theories were false. Oh, that's right, you can't. Instead, you and the other guy keep trying to put words in my mouth (since you have no arguments for what I actually say). So why don't you please try to understand that I'm not the guy you keep claiming me to be, the guy who's standing way over at the opposite end of the argument claiming that the US is perfect, the rest of the world sucks, politicians are honest, and whatever the hell else you try to make me sound like just to attempt to discredit my arguments. If you're going to try to dispute something I say, try and at least make it something I actually said. Disputing this "fantasy" argument you guys keep claiming I make is kind of lame.

[quote]It's like a new Nazi Germany we are heading towards and it has to stop. I'm not gonna just sit and nod my head [/quote] It's quite clear to anyone who's not blind that you use these paranoid theories just to get attention, cause if you [i]really were so concerned and so convinced that the US was so evil, you would be calling for boycots, etc, instead of buying American video games. So you might fool some morons, but you and me both know you're full of rot.

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Take the criminals by surprise!

Stopping crime in World City is easy with a fully equipped Undercover Van and Police 4WD. The undercover policeman catches the crooks in the act from his van, and then the 4WD swoops in to arrest them! Includes 2 vehicles, 2 mini-figures, and accessories.

OMG, children are playing cops and robbers! Something has happened since I was a little kid, we NEVER did that! And I guess crime isn't a problem at all, so there's no need to go undercover. I mean criminals are so dumb that they don't try to hide the fact that they're breaking the law, right? If the government was so evil and powerfull, and were trying to keep it a secret from everyone, then why haven' they shut you up? That fact (that you have not been silenced) is the closest thing to proof that I've seen in this entire discussion. And it is very much in line with my feelings that 95% of what you say is nonsense.

So I doubt either of you have any more arguments to make (since instead of disputing what I've actually said, you chose to dispute what you made up that I said), but if you do, please try and make a point to better understand what it means to prove something. Until you do, you'll continue to sound somewhat ignorant

*Please understand that that was not meant to be an insult. But if you took it as one, remember that the proportion of insults to arguments in my posts are very very low, compared to some.

Well, I'm disputing what you have said because you're still wrong.

What about those who were most responsible? What about those who were back in Spain giving the orders?

Absolutist kings giving orders do not represent the will of the Spanish people. Those things happend long ago (your country didnt even exist) and there was no democracy. I insist, people who vote Bush are indeed a bit responsible .Not totally because ignorance and 9/11 thirst for revenge (on who?) plays a part in all of this.

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About that proof and no proof thing... you are the one who doesnt understand it. Seeing an airplane over the skys of Washington D.C (biggest source of proof there is) only prove:
1)Planes exist
2)There is at least one plane in the air over Washington DC atm
Now, seeing a 2,7 meter hole in the walls of a building and no remains whatsoever of a boeing airplane only prove:
1)A boeing 757 did not crash against the pentagon
2)The government lied about flight 77

As you see, A can be right and B can be right as well, one thing doesnt really contradict the other. Eye witnesses recognising
an American Airlines jet flying at 400 mph hour does make me very suspicious...

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why the hell would you support it? I mean, if your "friend" decided to take a shit on your bed, bang your gf, eat all your food, steal your money, and kill your neigbor, would you still support him?

That is not the case since US has not invaded their allies, just their old enemys. And you can see that the new socialist government in Spain pulled the
troops out and has much less political and diplomatic relations with the U.S. Because that's what the people democratically wanted.

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I doubt 500,000 American children would die if the rest of the world sent the US a message by restricting trade. The US can produce more food than it needs.

Yes, the U.S does, but not Iraq. It's a poor country and that's why people can die of hunger. Comparing US food situation with the Iraq situation (which I repeat
the US created) is very arrogant, insulting and sad.

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So if Hitler made great films, you would support him by buying them, but hypocriticaly complain about him too?

I would probably download his films through a p2p network

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I dont know what words I've put in your mouth. You have repeatedly said that Spaniards have their hands stained with blood and I've given
you more than enough arguments that prove you wrong.
You started this thread with a good intention, and we appreciate it, really.

-Democracy in Iraq is a good thing, specially for the US because it means one less enemy
-It means American businesses can finally use Iraqi oil fields
-Freedom in Iraq is just a side effect of a war for more military and economic power. The government and media want to put it in the spotlight
since it's about the only "good thing" that has happened because of this war.
-Spanish are cool and their hands dont have a trace of blood. Only the basque terrorist ETA group kills (I dont know why some morons in international
press organizations keep calling them separatist when they've killed 817 people)

We've discussed your lesser points, I think I missed the bigger ones? If you can, please state them in an orderly fashion as I just did

Man, you are like a nat in camp site 'ZeeeeeeeZzzzzeeeeeeezzzeeeeee'

Listen, I have no problem with you wanting to constantly disprove everything that's said that disagrees with what you say because you wrote history, but you simply cannot 'rubbish' all this off without some reasonable effort to read all the information, news articles, official documents, offcial proposals etc. You cannot say it's nonsense and it doesnt exist when you havent bothered to investigate. Right now, you are acting like the leaf on everybody's track.

"Why haven't I been silenced?" Well isn't that just thee most absurd comment amongst all the other trash you just come out with just then. Well I can think of many reasons why I haven't been silenced, one is because, incase you didn't know, I'm not the only one who looks beyond the lies and propoganda of mainstream media, I'm not the only one who realised that the government is capable of horrific crimes against humanity, I am not the only one who laughs at George Bush's absurd speeches, I'm not the only one who thinks that cameras in bathrooms does not fight terrorism, I'm not the only one who knows that 9/11 was engineered by the Millitary Industrial Complex, I'm not the only one who knows that throughout history dictators have created disasters and blamed it on the bogeyman and then said that the only way to be safe is to give up all your rights, I'm not the only one who stands for what is right - and that is humanity and the freedom to say what the fuck we want before it gets too late, before they start putting us in forced labour camps with microchip implants processing our thoughts for us.

Laugh all you will, but I'm sorry, I dont submit to dehumanisation, I do not want to see our lives and the lives of generations to come living in a global gulag, I'm sorry but I stand against fascism, corruption, tyranny, and enslavement.

Now piss off and go back to your box.

( )

Absolutist kings giving orders do not represent the will of the Spanish people.

You Spanish should have overthrown him right when he started killing people, or as soon as you found out.

Now, seeing a 2,7 meter hole in the walls of a building and no remains whatsoever of a boeing airplane only prove:

1.Show me a picture of a 2.7 meter hole in the side of the pentagon. 2. Show me a picture immediatly after the attack where there's no aircraft debris. 3. show me missile debris. 4. The pentagon is not just some random building, it was built to withstand very, very powerful blasts. 5. Crews were cleaning up around it immediately after the attack. Show proof, because repetedly saying you have proof, is not proof.

As you see, A can be right and B can be right as well, one thing doesnt really contradict the other.

So what? I said:

I am under the impression that if A contradicts B, and one is proven true, then the other must be false.

And we were talking about either proving that an aircraft hit or did not hit the pentagon. So what's your point?

That is not the case since US has not invaded their allies, just their old enemys. And you can see that the new socialist government in Spain pulled the
troops out and has much less political and diplomatic relations with the U.S. Because that's what the people democratically wanted.

Well then, I still say that you are just as much to blame for whatever the US does as is anyone over here. If you keep rewarding the US by doing business with her, then you are doing absolutely nothing (when you have the power to) to make the US stop.

Yes, the U.S does, but not Iraq. It's a poor country and that's why people can die of hunger. Comparing US food situation with the Iraq situation (which I repeat
the US created) is very arrogant, insulting and sad.

Yes, of course. Me telling you not to worry about children here starving if you cut off trade to show the US you disapprove of its actions is so arrogant. No, what's arrogant is for you, with all your guilt, to sit there and point the finger at the US, while you do not a damn thing to help all those poor starving helpless innocent iraquis.

I would probably download his films through a p2p network

lol

I dont know what words I've put in your mouth.

OK, I'll remind you of a couple things you claim I said or suggest, which I never did:

Unknow Genious is implying that there were no Indians in the territory that is now the U.S

and

there's no 9/11 proof until the White House says so

And I was including you with the other guy who says the most ignorant stuff.

You have repeatedly said that Spaniards have their hands stained with blood and I've given
you more than enough arguments that prove you wrong.

Not really. What you've done is provided arguments that help you to rationalize what your people have done so you can not feel so guilty. And like I said a few times, I only brought it up because you were coming accross so "holier than thou" when talking about what the terrible Americans were up to. I just wanted you to use some perspective, but alas, you still miss the point.

-Democracy in Iraq is a good thing, specially for the US because it means one less enemy

And one less problem in the world for the Spanish to do nothing about while they sit back and whine.

-It means American businesses can finally use Iraqi oil fields

Of course all the Spanish companies will stay out.

Freedom in Iraq is just a side effect of a war for more military and economic power. The government and media want to put it in the spotlight
since it's about the only "good thing" that has happened because of this war.

I feel so honored and lucky to be getting lessons on the world and international politics from you. Tell the truth, are you really an ambassador or some kind of secretairy of state? I mean, you know all the answers and have all the facts, you cant just be some teenage kid who's still in high school, right

-Spanish are cool and their hands dont have a trace of blood. Only the basque terrorist ETA group kills (I dont know why some morons in international
press organizations keep calling them separatist when they've killed 817 people)

Um, with all the terrorism going on in Spain lately, I think you should worry about what enemies you make, instead of so arrogantly judging the US. You cowered out of your commitments because you didn't want to make the terrorists mad, and now just look at you. You cant go a week without bombs going off or some buildings getting burned down. It's really sad what's happening to your country. But I'll try not to judge you.

We've discussed your lesser points, I think I missed the bigger ones? If you can, please state them in an orderly fashion as I just did

Well, I'll make my points clearly for you one more time:
1. You say the US does terrible things, but you do absolutely nothing about it (when you could by sending the US an ecobnomical message).
2. You complain that there are so many problems in the world that the US seems to ignore, and others that the US causes, but you do absolutely nothing about them
3. You claim to have so much PROOF about the US involvement in 9/11, but you dont show any, you just talk about it. Shit or get off the pot man. I'm tired of hearing about all this evidence you have, but seeing none. And please don't tell me to look at a paronoid conspiracy website to find proof. And before you try to show me your proof, look up the meaning of the word. Proof is not something that suggests something is true, it proves it's true.

I'm sure I made some other points as well, but these will do for now.

Oh, and unless the other guy responds to something I actually say, instead of responding to crap he makes up in his fantasy world like he's been doing, I'll probably start ignoring him. But before I completely ignore him, I'll just say that if the government was so mighty and evil like he claims, they would have very little trouble shutting down his little paranoid conspiracy websites and permanently silencing those who made them. This guy has absolutely no clue, I'm sure hes just some dumb little kid trying to get attention. I'm impressed

I'm not really convinced about the "world police" theory either (Jahzel, you might be exagerating a bit)

-For example: If your father did something wrong, would you protest by not accepting his Christmas presents? Countries cant stop economic relations with the U.S so easily.
-it might me true I dont do anything to stop the U.S (I think we're talking about me, not Spanish people in general because I cant decide what they do) At least I'm trying to make people question themselves if this war for freedom is really a war for freedom, since all there is deaths and deaths everyday in that country.
-I wont show you the pentagon pics, since you would obviously say they are fake, no doubt. I would like to see a pic where we see parts of a 757... but I guess I have to beleive the official story: It evaporated at 2500 ?C... but that temperature was nos sufficient to degrade de DNA structure of about 90% of the crew and passengers they identified
I guess I'll have to stop using the word "proof" since you use the ambiguity of that word as an argument...

with all the terrorism going on in Spain lately, I think you should worry about what enemies you make, instead of so arrogantly judging the US. You cowered out of your commitments because you didn't want to make the terrorists mad, and now just look at you. You cant go a week without bombs going off or some buildings getting burned down

Lately??? Enemys??? ETA's terrorism has been going on for more than 30 years, no one has attacked the Basque people, so they have no reason or motive whatsoever to kill. We're not talking about insurgents whose relatives have been killed and want to take revenge on the world and blow themselves up, it's a different terrorism.
You probably missed it, but those commitments you talk about were decided by the former government on its own, without the approval of the people. So it's actually fair that they got kicked out for doing that. It has nothing to do with being coward, pulling out of Iraq was part of the Socialist's election program way before the train bombings, sorry . And the train bombings had been planned before Spain went to Iraq, so those things dont relate... Even if they did, Al Qaeda hasnt attacked since the train bombings... or did you think these last bombings were done by Islamic terrorists???? Maybe they say so in the U.S news, so people develop more hate towards
Islamic terrorism???
About that building getting burned (I can see the smoke from my window) it was a shortcircuit in a building that was being remodeled. It wasnt a terrorist attack and there have been no victims.

t's really sad what's happening to your country.

I said something like that on september 2001...

Well, Jahzel posted the link to some of those pics, take a look at them before just saying they are fake. (I particulary like the little pieces that clearly show us its an American Airlines jet, lol)

It's a matter of 'do you want to believe the government was responsible for 9/11' or 'do you not want to believe the government was involved with 9/11 despite the overwhelming evidence and unaswered questions.'

People tend to rubbish off anything that could potentially ruin the image of the government because they want to go about living their lives as another clone.

Btw...NORAD admitted on the news that it was ordered to stand down on 9/11 - but I suppose that doenst change your mind does it Unknown, no, just ignore that and believe the official fairytale.

P.s. It's not world police, America is currently a fascist police state. The UK is heading towards a police state, but thankfully with much resistance from folks who do care.

Also, Kasperg, Loffe posted those

yeah, I noticed

If the Iraqis wanted liberation, why don't we just pull all troops out of there? They're doing sod all atm, and pro-Saddam suicide bombers are everywhere.

The globalists are succefully engineering an unsafe/insecure society of fake terror alerts and staged terror attacks. They are using the fear of the unknown, the fear of being confronted or attacked by those 'crazy middle east' guys (who by the way, most of them were trained and armed by America and the UK - but that wouldn't matter would it )

...Oh and the illusive Osama Bin Laden and Al-CIAeda.

When confronted by these 'terrorism' scenarios we look to our government and authorities to 'help prevent the threats' and the only way they say they can prevent the threats is to remove our civil liberties and basic human rights, freedom and justice that get's in the way of the globalist's regime. (You cant have a Global Government where people actually have freedom). So now you hear on the news, the pro-police state propoganda trying to justify ID cards and national DNA database, cameras in school bathrooms, implantable microchips etc.

What we have now is a 'War On Terror (Freedom, and humanity)' that will

last hundreds of years - Bush

for fucksake.. there go MY plans for world domination..