Problem with RUN VIS normal/fast Created 18 years ago2006-04-04 16:48:33 UTC by capscorpion

First I'd like to say thanks to all for your forum support and for those of you who are involved in the tutorials.They both have helped me very much as a beginner mapper.My problem is when I try to compile my map with a RUN Vis of normal or fast worldcraft(ver. 3.4) locks up.The map does work and compile fine with no RUN Vis.Thanks again for the help!

It doesn't lock up, it's just working hard. Be patient, and it'll eventually finish. If you'd rather know how stuff's progressing, switch to a batch compiler. Check our Compiling tutorial for details, and search the forums.

Heh, speedy reply or what?

I recommend Nem's batch compiler. Batch compilers don't take all the computer's virtual memory, so while compiling you can do things in the computer without interupting to compiling process. It wont whiten out and it compiles abit faster... on weak computers(like mine) it's a must.

Definately fast
I've read about your other compilers but what is the best?Problem a huge debate.I've read that zhlt's is pretty good.I have the halflife-cs_expert.fgd if that helps....

I forgot to mention that Nem's compiler is also for source(not only Hl based games), which is good, if you'll want sometime to map for source.

Edit:

Damn... I posted so fast you didn't notice mine...

ZHLT are absolutely ubiquitous. The only difference is how they are run. If you compile "in Hammer", all that happens is Hammer runs Zoner's tools for you. If you use a batch compiler, then that will run ZHLT for you. Zoner's tools are the ones doing the actual compiling.

Ok I just installed Nem's batch compiler and I must say that for a beginner the options are a bit overwhelming.Is there a default setting for now?How exactly do I load and compile my rmf if thats what I still load?Sorry if these are stupid questions I am a beginner to mappin and compile is something I just installed.

Skip it, before going into batch compiling learn the basics and after you started using the expert compiling mode return to batch compiling. You don't need it now for you're just starting and your maps aren't too complex.

Don't use a batch compiler.

I still don't use a batch compiler.

Just use zhlt.

as Seventh said, when you compile in hammer after loading the ZHLT tools, it just uses ZHLT.

Be VERY patient with Vis. What specifically is the map you are trying to create?

From your last thread, I can conclude it is pretty big,
due to the fact that you used up the recommended maximum distance

I'd start small before you try and create a massive map.

I made the mistake, on the second map I tried to create, of making it way too big that I got the error:

Alloc Block Full

If you get that error, you are using too much, or there is a brush error.

Good Luck...

Don't use a batch compiler.

I disagree. Batch compilers make it easier to tweak compiling, offer a little performance boost, and let you see what's going on.

But they also take time to switch to, closing your editor, firing up the batch, and so on. The ultimate situation is an in-game editor, with direct results. For me, Hammer makes compiling a little easier by providing a hotkey and a config system of it's own - it may take some more resources, but I feel more comfortable jumping straight from, and back to, Hammer.
But, that's a mappers personal preference. Both have their advantages and disadvantages and finally, there's zero difference for the results, so just go with the one you're comfortable with.

As for your map, how large or complex is it? There are many things that increase compile times that you can avoid, like putting small or complex brushes into func_walls (to prevent face-splitting - less faces, to decrease VIS complexity - faster VIS compile times) though be aware that only world brushes 'block visibility'.

Add to the list of VIS "taker longers":
-Improper use of Hint brushes
-Big skyboxes
-Too many detailed architecture or world props
-Wrecked/invalid brushes

If your VIS is taking a long time with the -fast switch, your map probably has one or all of these negative attributes.

To give you an idea, I have a map where the VIS time takes about 4.5 minutes, but with fast VIS, it takes about 8 seconds!

Don't forget the 'carving with any brush that's more complex than a cube' - often causes extra faces, extra VIS work and sometimes leaks.

Hmm, is there any detailed article that covers all these tech things in one go?

The performance boost when using a batch compiller is not little: its actually fairly major, depending on your rig. On my computer, if I use Hammer to compile Source maps, I can pretty much forget about doing anything else. If I do, I can't bring Hammer back up to check the progress of the compile.

Nem's batch compiller is superb. If you hover over the flags, it'll give you a little description of the option. Also, if you're having trouble setting it up, or putting together a set of compile options, check Nem's site for tutorials, which I'm sure will help you immensly.

BrattyLord: I really cannot see how you can stand the Hammer compiller, apart from having the extremly minor issues of having to load a batch compiller.

As Captain P said, its just more comfortable for me. Its not like the results are any different, relative to the poor work I do anyway. I'm still learning... Besides, I find it useful to compile and test my maps often, and just pressing a few hotkeys to do that seems more practicle for me. but of course, I'm one of the least experienced regulars here on TWHL.

Oh Captain,

If you can't find an article that covers the basic "What not to do" topics, I'd be glad to write one.

I use hammer for quik compiles, but when i know my compiling times are hitting the hour then im going batch, saves some resources and cuts down the compiling times a lot. Also best for tweaking lightning for a final compile.

Otherwise, hammer.

I have a map that takes all my RAM when compiling and never finishes. Would Nem's tools free up enough memory to accomplish a succesful compile?
Hammer loads incredible amounts of textures and models, and I think that's the problem...

Kasperg: HL 1 or 2? If it's HL1 I'd be willing to try it for you if you like.

Here'sa very comprehensive list of XP tweaks you can use to free up memory and HDD space... Most important probably disabling unnecessary processes, having enough free HDD space, and perhpas increasing the size of your Virtual Memory pagefile.

Use BlackViper's site for process stuff. This is an archived version as the site itself seems to be down at present.

Here are my specs. for my movie theater map. 3312w/1936l/138h
I changed my map max distance to 4700 to stop the morphing in my main hall.Is that to much and is my map to large?I don't think there is alot of tetail yet and no carving done.I have though used vertex manip though.I have 8 movies theaters,2 bathrooms,1 main hall downstairs(connecting the theaters & bathrooms) with some bench seats and plant pots,1 secondary hall up stairs connecting 2 sniper run ways(so you can snipe in each theater,kinda like a projection room) and an outside vent leading to 1 theater.I also have 2 offices and a break room with 2 counters in the front thats really it guys.

I think when it's all done I will make it a cs_theater or cinema(hostage) map.

Thanx again I switched to expert with a fast vis and just let it run with nothing else running on my pc and it took about 8 to 10 mins.It compiled and the map worked fine.

Also are these specs to big for my map?Mind you it's not done.It will not get any larger size(exterior)wise but I will be adding more to the interior.

4477 faces
Create Patches : 36300 base patches
0 opaque faces
505707 square feet [72821808.00 square inches]
111 direct lights

Thanx again for your support and help all

Looking forward to checking out your map...should have some nice detail

Oh and use the edit button instead of posting 3 times in a row <apologizes to The Hunter for beating him to it >

If you add -chart paramater after the last part of your compile--usually RAD--, It will list how much map resources you've used up for that paticular level. You can use the parameter for each stage of compile, but then it just repeats the info 4 times

Here's a taste of what it looks like:

Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
models              1/400           64/25600    ( 0.3%)
planes            581/32768      11620/655360   ( 1.8%)
vertexes         1784/65535      21408/786420   ( 2.7%)
nodes             501/32767      12024/786408   ( 1.5%)
texinfos          277/32767      11080/1310680  ( 0.8%)
faces            1373/65535      27460/1310700  ( 2.1%)
clipnodes        1747/32767      13976/262136   ( 5.3%)
leaves            343/8192        9604/229376   ( 4.2%)
marksurfaces     1566/65535       3132/131070   ( 2.4%)
surfedges        6402/512000     25608/2048000  ( 1.3%)
edges            3212/256000     12848/1024000  ( 1.3%)
texdata          [variable]        928/4194304  ( 0.0%)
lightdata        [variable]     446610/6291456  ( 7.1%)
visdata          [variable]      15101/2097152  ( 0.7%)
entdata          [variable]        332/524288   ( 0.1%)
21 textures referenced
=== Total BSP file data space used: 611795 bytes ===

Very nice TY,Excellant! I can't wait till it's done eother. I only have till the end of May and like I said before I am new to mapping,lol.I do put alot of time into it though like most mappers I'm sure after only breifly mapping.I do have a new appriciation for maps and mappers now.

If you think that is big then you have never played Trepid's map Skayoo.bsp for TFC, which takes up all the space in hammer.

I just started mapping less then a week ago, (I'm a very fast learner, my SpaceFight map is looking pretty damn good so far, and I've only completed 2 out of four decks for one base (copy and paste for second base). I would say I like the in-hammer compiler, may take longer, but while compiling I can get others things done like house chores.