looking for a military vehicles mapper Created 19 years ago2005-08-26 08:51:11 UTC by J.C

hi,

we are a little team actually working on this project :

http://www.ideaseed.net/maps/CS16/raid/screenshots.html
(the screenshots are out-of-date)

official website :
http://www.de-raid.net/

and we need a "military vehicle mapper" to map ... military vehicles ...

this one :
http://www.ideaseed.net/public/avion.gif
and this one actually :
http://www.ideaseed.net/public/camion.gif

this truck and this plane are brushes, won't be models, and already have been optimized, but actually there is nobody in the team available and with enough skills to do this job, then I do a little post here in case there could be a guy here interested, available, and skilled enough

how would work the job ?
well, I send you a rmf file with just the vehicles inside (kinda prefab), you do not modify them in any kind (not move them, not use vertex tool on them etc), you map them and you send me the completed job.

what could I earn from such work ?
your nick in the map credits

will there be other stuff to do too ?
there will probably be an helicopter too in the map, added later ...

why don't you use models for this stuff ?
because :
_I don't want to spend weeks to find exactly what we need,
_I don't want to spend a week to build good collisions boxes, for both players and weapons,
_these brushes are lighter than models, and the map need to be very optimized from this point of view,
_the map is actually optimized enough to deal with the extra wpolys these vehicles are generating,
_these are my works, and I am proud of it
_I don't wanna use the same models everybody already did in the last 7896541321 maps ...

Moved to Maps and Mods.

I thought I posted it in the right section : isn't the "maps n mods" section only dedicated to completed and released stuff ? ...

I map military vehicles a bit.But I dont want to join in ur team.

Overall- This is my howitzer,prefab.

does this stuff really existed ?

if you don't want to join the team, you can just map the stuff you know : the matter is not to join a team or not, but to make this project completed ...

the truck would be perfect with a similar look ... how heavy is this prefab by the way ?

what do u mean by heavy? Poly? :

I dunno ,I really dont care about polygons and stuff .I just map.
I could give u this prefab for crediting me.But ur mod doesnt have any story or something so I m not sure.

this is just a CS map, there is just a basic military atmosphere, but no real story : I let people think what they want about destroying an objective that looks like something between a SR-71 and a Y-wing : CS players aren't very interested about to think you know, they just want cover points, real weapons, and guys to kill : the first versions of this map got lights buttons (and dark areas) but that was already too much complicated for them you know ...

about heavy I mean what is the size of the file : how heavy (large) are the textures, the modeling etc, just to know if you know what "optimization" means ...

J.C. I'm definitely interested, but please clarify what you need.

Are you saying you'd like us to 'remake' both the plane and the truck with the fewest amount of brushes possible/best looking?

I'm not sure I could make the plane much better, because it's very well done imo, but I'd certainly try.

The Truck on the other hand, there is much room for improvement.

Actually it's only a matter of (texture) mapping : these vehicles are already modeled and optimized, and are actually covered of black and purple squares ingame, and as I am planning to release the first beta version of the map soon, I think it could be better to have "real" vehicles

I have no definitive needs : the map got a current concept and gameplay, and nothing prevent us to let it going : if you think you could improve these vehicles, you would be free to suggest us changes if you join the team (or work as an "external member" if you don't want to talk with freaking frenchies), but anyway you would have to keep in mind that :

_the main objective of this map is to be released, to be played, then as in business, the last people to command is the "last user", the customer, the average CS gamer ... Believe me or not, but the first versions of the map got interactive lightings (all lights in the level were either breakable or switchable), but the first testers to post reports about the map didn't like at all the fact to have to deal with totally dark areas, and I finally decided to turn the map into a "0% interactivity 100% lighten" (while I worked so much on these lightings ...). The point is that you aren't the boss here : this map got an objective beyond you and me : the gamers. Believe me or not, but we redid the whole map about 3 or 4 times, but people got less and less (negative) comments about the map, and there are more and more "cannot wait to play it !", which could mean we could be about to reach our goal now ... for these reasons, the textures used for these vehicles shouldn't exceed 2 Mos : the map files are already about 8 MB actually, and the map mustn't exceed 10 MB (for some reasons, CS gamers have no problem downloading during 5 minutes crappy server custom sounds, but they cannot deal with a 3-5 minutes map download ...)

_these vehicles got fixed "shapes", fixed collisions boxes : they are that way because of a lot of gameplay details, like the possibility to enter in the middle of the base from under the truck, the possibility to camp in the truck, the possibility to climb the truck to enter in the (old) "control room" over it (there were buttons and cameras screens in this room, but because of those players who don't like any other interactivity that to buy AK and to shot CTs, I finally removed all of them, and that room, that was a very strategical point, is now just "another" room
, but we are planning several versions of the map : included one with "high interactiviy" (night natural lighting, and all artificial lightings (from lights) interactive, like in original versions ).

for these reasons, don't expect a wide range of creativity in this project : this project is not about creativity (I have map concepts in mind much more original than that), this project is only about release a map that could be a serious online competitor against those fucking old and ugly and boring dust, militia and aztec "official" maps : I am sick beyond imagination about those lame "maps", and am planning to kill them, but for that purpose we have to please players, not our creativity, then this project is a bit of originality, and a lot of optimization and gameplay ...

if you want to have a more private discussion about that :
http://www.de-raid.net/forum/ (the public forum, but actually desert )
or one of my emails :
jc-ideaseed-net ("-" = "@"/".")

did you already do this kind of job by the way ? could you show me some maps or prefabs or models or textures or I-don't-know-what you already did for HL1 / CS 1.6 ?

oh no ,I hate CS.I thought this was for hl

Why didnt u tell that at the beginning...

8 MB!! THAT WOULD TAKE MY 1 HOUR TO DOWNLOAD!(from steam)

An other guy released a beta version of his map (a nice cs_assault remake) that was about 12 MB : without any special settings on the game server I rent, most people needed about 20 minutes to download it, but after used the "sv_download" command, that time has been decreased to 3 minutes, then now we know that little trick, I am expecting an average download time of 4-8 minutes max to download our 8-10 MB map ...

Use this to work out download times, fellas.

Of course, you've got to work out which end is the limit ? if the server is on 2Mb, and there are four clients all on 1Mb, the server end will be the limit, being able to provide 0.5Mb/client at most. If it's on 4Mb and the client is on 56k, then it'll be that one client's end.

I would be content to brush something for you if needed, but I'm quite the texturing noob.

Somebody with more custom texture experience than me, would probably be better...

I am honored about your interest, but I fear we won't need any help that way in our project : Hammer is so limited next to my current modeling skills that I may never need anybody to model anything in this old game editor ...

http://www.ideaseed.net/2D/Hive_playboy.gif

(I already redid the whole map about two or three times, and almost never got any problem with the vertex tool)

I just need mappers because on an other hand I am a total nub on this part, and the map wouldn't be like that it is now without the help of the two ones who joined this project, the only point now is that everytime I am talking about mapping the vehicles nobody is left on the room but me ...

Excuse me, but could somebody tell me where I could get this kind of people ? I thought I could got a Operation Flashpoint mapper (I heard that game was very popular), but all the forums I visited was totally dead, and everybody seems to don't care anymore about HL1 mapping ...

we do! its not hl1 mapping,you mean cs mapping!!I dont care for cs mapping! :

The map is now playable :

http://www.de-raid.net/download.html
http://www.de-raid.net/servers.html

We already did the first public betatest, and it was successful : 8 people joined the game, there was no collision bugs (99% of them have been fixed), no server lag or crash, no lamer/cheater/nub/pgm, no major unbalance etc.

The game lasted 30-40 minutes and ended on a 15-10 for the terrorists, which against all expectings won (everybody said it was a pro-CT map while testing it solo).

After this public meeting, I am planning a clan vs clan private meeting, to see how higher level players (with teamplays, strats etc, no mindless FFA quakish style) deal with the map.

This project is about the be completed : I am working hard on advertising it, organizing betatests, clans meetings, optimizing and debugging the map, adding new minor stuff (like rocks, grass etc), and I simply cannot actually work on the engines mapping.

Sweet. Keep us posted as to how the fuller playtests go!

Unfortunately, the server is "europe only" and already got a quite bad ping for us around (40-80) ...

The next version could be available in two weeks, with theorically at least one of the vehicles mapped ... I don't know how I will manage that but I will try ...

60ms is hardly bad.

nice but it seems odd to betatest a map :

Er, not at all, where multiplayer is concerned.

nice but it seems odd to betatest a map

why? i allways beta test them with my friends to find bugs etc..

60ms is hardly bad.

It's enough for me, and anyway it's the best I can have where I am and for what I have ...

nice but it seems odd to betatest a map

looks essential to me, for any serious project ...

If you like the map and/or want to post reports about it (feedbacks, comments etc), here is the dedicated topic :
http://twhl.co.za/forums.php?pgt=1&action=viewthread&id=8745&pg=1

I've played through the map and since I was bored with my homework, I decided to write some stuff about it. It's mainly suggestions for improvements as I like that aspect a lot (unless a map really impresses me, which rarely happens). So don't take it the negative way, I'm just trying to see this thing getting improved. Here goes:

A little on gameplay
Good to hear it plays nicely. I'm not really a full-time CS player so I've got little to comment on that, except that the map feels cramped at some points (the chrouching is annoying and some halls are just wide enough for 1 player) and that I did get stuck on the triangle terrain now and then. Aside from that, the layout looks ok.

A bland look: textures and lighting
The visuals are ok, but nothing really special. The texture set and the lighting are mainly yellowish which makes the map appear very monotone, the rock and grass textures aren't really contrasting with it either. Add the lack of feasible shadows outside and the result is quite bland. Getting a more distinct and contrasting texture set and tweaking the lighting outside to make it look interesting would do the map really good.

Prop models: touching up and spreading them
Using prop models is a great thing, but they don't look very good at the moment. You might want to reskin and redefine the fences (they're quite rough now) and the sandbags especially (the rock looks strange due to the skin as well - usually small rock surfaces aren't that noisy). As for detail, some area's in the map look well detailed while others consist mainly of long boring (yellowish ;)) surfaces. Spread the detail some more, using a few exta low-poly models here and there doesn't hurt.

Sense of place: low rocks and sudden ending airstrip
Also, get rid of the invisible clipping at the airstrip. Add some fallen rocks or more fences to make it feel right. Adding a low-res textured area behind it really does it good too, as now the map feels faked (the low rocks that give too much sight to the skybox have the same sense-of-place-killing effect).

Sprites: more and better fitting
The sprite-based plants are a nice idea, but they look odd against that grass texture (they look a bit odd anyway). It may also be that there's just one or two popping up on a large field that makes it look odd.

Additional model usage
Using models for the plane and the truck really isn't a bad thing. Or at least using some prop models for the finer details of them (like a lamp or antenna for the truck, or a flight panel for the plane). Just some extra touchups that aren't really necessary for the gameplay but I think they do make the map more interesting for a certain kind of players.

Lighting: shadowed lamps?
Oh, some lights in the basement don't seem to lighten the environment really. It's because there's shadow on them. Changing their render mode should do the trick. A glow sprite could be nice too. Better, use models for them as they appear quite blocky now.

Models: technical approach
I also took a look at the models and you can use some improvements there as well. Think about smoothing groups for the fences (they appear blocky now. With proper smoothing, even a 5-sided cylinder looks better). That model also used an exessive amount of bones. One suffices for static props. I also don't know why you should use so many hitboxes, as I assume you're clipping the model manually anyway.

A brothers comment
Oh, and I let my brother play the map. He played CS for a while and plays CoD often, so I think his comments as a player might be usefull as well. He agreed on the bland look, he also noted the absence of background sound and some strange env_sound behaviour (some echoes didn't sound like they would in reality). He didn't like the crawling spaces as they took too much time and got annoying. He liked the lockheed and the helicopter, though he thinks the lockheed is too small and the wheels look odd.
He found it a fair map, but not for a 3-months job by a multiple-membered team.

Conclusion
Overall, I too think it could and should get better on a lot of area's.
It's a good thing, though, to see people working together on a map and putting so much effort in it. That shouldn't go unnoticed...
I would recommend that your team specializes more, though. Get a dedicated texture-artist and a modeller, I'd say.
Good luck!

thanks for this report.

Getting a dedicated texture-artist and a modeller
do you know somebody that could be interested to join us ?
just look as this topic : everybody say "wow nice", but nobody is ok to help beyond some feedbacks posts ...

recruiting people in such project is really a pain, and I am not talking about finding good testers ...

the current models
building the models is also a pain : modeling is ok, doing textures and mapping is ok, but the 3DSmax exporter (nub) totally ruin the mapping UV coordinates, and the final model just looks like a nub job, no matter the ammount of time I try to revise the files values ...

The ingame models are not the same than those I did in 3DSmax ...

Glow on lams
Older map versions got glows, but I deleted them while making all lights permanent, after people was like "omg breakable lamps !! omg it's too dark, I cannot see anything once I destroyed them !!". Maybe should I reput them ...

the plane
Using a model for the plane is a bad thing, because :
_there is no SR-71 model for HL1,
_there is no correctly mapped model,
_there is no explosion animated model,
_there is no model you can go under, over and inside ...

Then as my exporting/compiling models skills are very low, and as I am tired of that crap now, sick to deal with dozens of new and unexpected problems every day, I am just giving my best to complete the map how it is ...

low rocks and sudden ending airstrip
I totally agree.

This part of the map is relatively new, and actually it is more a temporary area to be confirmed than a definitive part of the map, but as most players who tested the map like it, it will be improved in the next versions ...

The visuals are ok, but nothing really special
You perfectly got it : this project is not supposed to win art prizes, just to be downloaded and played, as much as possible, then everything is as much optimized as it can be, and the result is just a decent HL1 map ...

CS (1.6) maps aren't supposed to be beautiful, just a bit realistic to look, and incredibly fun and balanced to play, then I am focusing on the gameplay ...

stuck ?
If you don't tell me exactly where you are stuck, I cannot fix those bugs ...

the chrouching is annoying and some halls are just wide enough for 1 player
the crouching is supposed to be annoying (slowing you down and making you vulnerable), and some paths are tight to force people to have some strategy and teamplay : I know CS gamers are becoming more and more mindless stupid quakers everyday, I know a "good" CS map got bright and large areas, where people don't have to do the smallest effort to move, aim and know where he has to go, but as I don't want to release a "100% moron certified" job, some paths are intentionally tight to make people use their brain at least once when they play this map ...

I am not creating to entertain the masses, I am creating to try to make them a bit better.

Dedicated texture artist and modellers
I agree that texture artists and modellers aren't easy to find. Maybe it's good that one of your team-members starts focussing on it if that's possible...

Models
Anyway, for the models: I use Milkshape 3D, a low-poly modeller and it works great for HL models. The fence model took me 15 minutes to redo, giving a lower-poly, smoother version. If you want it, go ahead. I didn't fix the bone structure though and it's certainly not the best quality as I rushed it, but hey... (So, if I have some free time, I could do a model or two now and then...)
If the 3DSMax exporter gives trouble, use something else. It's the end-result what counts, not the in-editor thing. A friend of mine used a plane model I made for him in his game and the textures were all flipped. It turned out to be a problem with the texture format, so he used another format instead.

Spicing up the plane
The plane looks fine the way it is now, but using models for details on it is a nice thing, isn't it? They're not important for collision or anything, just to make it look better...

Gameplay versus visuals... or is it gameplay and visuals?
As for visuals, it's good to focus on gameplay first, but visuals and overall impression are nice things to have at hand when it comes to convincing people to download the map. My brother, a CoD player, likes good-playing maps but he favors the good-looking and good-playing maps. It's a win-win situation, one doesn't substitute the other, they work together.
And hey, didn't you just create some nice terrain there? So you do care about the looks of it...

Getting stuck and generally hard movement
I got stuck in the small crawlspaces between the helicopter and close to the tower. One crawlspace had a 45-degree brush above it so when I tried to enter it (I usually crouch as late as possible to save some time) I often bounced off the brush above it, ending me up next to the crawlspace rather than in it.
Also under the bridge terrain was a bit hard to navigate, the point where you get up the bridge, opposite of the bunkers and coming from the airstrip, also wasn't very easy. I'd rather keep running on a path than having to jump to get further.
The rest of the terrain looks very well done though, good job on that.

Don't let the map be blamed
As for using your brain once, I'd rather see my maps played again...
Sure, vary the 'cost' of a path by making a safer route longer or making a shorter one more vulnerable to enemy fire, but watch out with restrictions. Players must blame themselves for a death due to a bad choice or bad skills, or let them blame the enemy for cheating or just being good. But avoid letting your map take the blame.
Make paths have their cost, but don't forget the gameplay dynamics. CS is a shooter, not a watch-your-steps-game. Players focus on the combat, not on the micro-movement. Speed is key when getting to an area so slow parts can get annoying. Read Dave Johnstons articles if you haven't already. He fine-tuned his player spawn-points up to seconds. A 2 seconds difference meant a total over-balance of the map... speed and timing is key.
Also, narrow area's only allow one or two players at the same time. If you're allowing up to 32 players, then this map is too narrow. It also allows little dodging which might get frustrating.

Oh, and did I already say I'm a perfectionist?

EDIT: I read on your site that you were forced to optimize when the map wasn't even done... how do you guys work? Creating detailed rooms first and expanding the map room for room, or creating a bare-bone basic layout to playtest first and detail later?

Well this map is a long project I started six monthes ago, and that I am almost full time on. I started with the "natural" part of the map, which I redid maybe two of three times, because it got first way too much polys, and generating an incredible ammount of collision bugs and clipnodes quota.

There is no definitive plan in my head : this map started from a basic concept, which I built and am still building, making growing with time and tests, and this map is evolving with players reports. What could be funny now is that the current map isn't anymore related any way with my very first idea ...

The main objective of this map is to be played, and for this reason I am always looking for as much tests reports as possible. I started the map, suggesting something, and players are completing it.

Oh, and did I already say I'm a perfectionist?

I think I am too.

Don't let the map be blamed

I agree, but not totally : it's easy to say "it's because of the map I died", but it's easy too to say "you died because you're a nub". The map may contains flaws, which could have to be fixed, then I am careful about every reports that are longer than two lines ...

You look like to be skilled and interested, would you like to help me complete this project ? to be our "model finisher" I mean ...

Read Dave Johnstons articles

No. I like to read when it's about adventures (to dream) or scientific stuff (to understand a bit more real life), but I totally don't care about a level designer who is looking for some attention talking about sharp tuning spawn points : I know spawn points need to be well placed, and the runtimes have been tuned too in my map ...

I take a look on your model ...

EDIT : wtf I don't get it, didn't you have exporting/compiling problems while completing your stuff ? how the hell can you have different textures scales and UV mapping on the same model ? Everytime I am exporting, that software lame ass is reseting most of the models faces by applying a general "world / treat as one / fit" to the whole model mapping (in addition of cancelling all textures names), and I didn't succed to reedit the files ... For this reason I cannot make a control panel for the plane for example, because it may need many different textures, which would be lost while exporting, I can only make very basic models ...

Your exporter/mapping skills could be very useful for this project ...

Dave Johnston is the creator of some official CS maps. A recommended read for any CS mapper. You can learn a lot of others who did the same things before you. And, personally, I always find it interesting how other people do their things. It broadens my point of view and often gives me idea's I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Anyway, about some mapping workflows: I used to create detailed area's and expand upon that and I often either got stuck, or had to redo a lot because the layout didn't work really well. Now, I just create a layout first, playtest it and only when it plays nice, I continue with the look. This saves me a lot of time and makes sure that every texture and model I create also actually gets used. With increased construction times for nowaday games, that's invaluable.
This method also gives me a first impression of the maps framerate and lets me plan where I can add details, and where I need to hold back to keep it playable. Planning things out didn't come naturally for me, but it does help me a lot now.

About the model, I had no problems at all. You just have a bad exporter if those things happen to you... a really bad one. Aren't there others for 3DSMax?

And for me helping out, I am busy with school since I'm taking extra lessons to do it in a shorter time, but ocassionally I'm able to do some little prop models. PM me if you want to talk about it.

EDIT: 'exporter skills'... ghehe, exporting is easy if you've got a good exporter. Has nothing to do with the person...

About the model, I had no problems at all. You just have a bad exporter if those things happen to you... a really bad one. Aren't there others for 3DSMax?

This is the only one I found, on all sites now it's only about that fucking HL2 and the lame CSS, and the only links left to HL1 3DSmax exporters are all dead ...
The problem in my opinion is not the exporter but 3DSmax and Valve : Valve always claimed to work on SoftImage (or another soft, I don't remember), and max exporters have just been quickly built to say "ok we care about max users", but they don't give a fuck ...

About Johnston, again, I totally don't care about such people, which I don't consider as essential to develop level design skills : I don't believe in god, in my country, money, women or in anything else but me, and for me Scott J. is just a level designer among 879761 others, and he should stfu and keep building levels in my opinion. level designers are level designers, not novels writers, reporters or politicians. The only thing needed for me to become a map designer on Hammer, is to take a look on some tutorials to get started, I don't need a kind of CS god to tell me crap like "if you put a wall here, players here won't be able to see and shot on enemies there", "if you put a light here, players will be able to see the room" or "a door is good way to prevent players from seeing each other around that point, without preventing them to go through". Thanks but I have a brain too : what about looking for a way to solve starvation and misery and violence and education problems around the world if he is so smart instead of wasting time writing pure crap ?...

That kind of people doesn't care about people like me, the only thing that bother them is to stay on their chair and get their salary as long as possible, then why the hell should I pay attention to him ?

Well, given the fact I didn't find any better exporter, the fact that I doubt such exporter even exist, and the fact that you improved that model quite easily, I would be very interested into have you as "external member" : that way I would be able to make models a bit better, but then the question is : as my exported models (.smd files) are totally fucked, is there another file format I could use to give you models with a good mapping on, to make you not have to waste time to remap almost everything ? Can you read .max files ? .3ds ? or something else ?...

Valve used 3DS-Max for their HL models, actually...

The HL SDK includes max-to-smd exporter plugins for versions 1.2 - 3.1.
Alternately, you can use Milkshape as it comes with a good HL smd exporter by default (plus it offers easy model decompiling and .qc file editing), and it's able to import a lot of different filetypes including .3ds files.

So you've got no reason at all to be so stressed. Relax a bit, things aren't as negative as you think they are. Why not take advice from fellow mappers, mappers that are a load better than you are and that have found out a lot of things through trial and error, and share their experience so you don't have to go through all the trouble? Really, discarding that is going to hold you back a lot. You learned the technical basis from others through tutorials but you can learn a lot from others in the design area as well.

And if you want me to do some modelling work, just send a PM for contact details.

bah, you might be right, I am unemployed for years and that is killing me ...

I didn't know Valve used 3DSmax, are you sure about that ? I remember clearly read that they used SoftImage or another soft (not maya nor 3DS I mean) ...

Softimage was for Source.

Quoted from the modelling document in the HL SDK:

All of the models in the shipping version of Half-Life were created with 3-D studio Max from Kinetix Inc., and the export tools included with this SDK currently only support Max.

They used Softimage XSI for HL2 though, or at least some modellers at Valve did.

Unemployed? Sounds no fun... Is it so hard to find a job in France now then?

omg!Man,you 2 write really long stuff

Unemployed? Sounds no fun... Is it so hard to find a job in France now then?

mmh, how could I explain ...

some examples before I gave up looking for a decent job :
_I am looking for a "real" job for six years now, but the requirements became totally crazy now :
_2D/3D artist, or project manager assistant I don't remember, for a full-time job, with as requirement "english as birth language" (that you speak english since you born, that your parents themselves speak english), for something where english (the job was supposed to be located in France) looks like to not be totally essential (just get what stuff like "copy/paste" or other typical soft functions mean),
_a training course, where candidates have to have "japanese basics", for something, again, where japanese, well, no clue what japanese have to do there (ok it was for the asian market, but come on, a training course ...),
_officially, 10% of people in France are unemployed, but I personnally think almost 20% of the active part of the people (20-60 years old) don't have "real" jobs (by "real", I don't mean a funny job, I just mean something enough to pay the rent, the food, water, phone, some clothes etc, who have to look for other crappy 15days long jobs max every day ...)
_the new recruiters fashion now, is to hire "trainees" for "undetermined" duration, for no salary, no employement possibilities or nothing, and you work until you got bored to pay an incredible rent for nothing (100K+ people cities, where there are still activity, are becoming incredibly extensive now, at least half the salary of a basic job for a decent apartment (2 rooms)), and they keep fire and hire trainees again and again, who need to work, even for nothing, to get that fucking "2 years experience" ...
_and, always, always, always : "master photoshop, master maya, master illustrator, master flash, master php, master Excel, master blablabla" : I didn't have real holidays for ten years, am working full-time (no week-end, nothing : my whole days in front of my computer) to improve my skills as much as possible, but my profile is just like 40% enough for a decent basic job !! what pisses me off is that people I met for job examinations sometimes don't have the half of my skills, and just kick me like shit ...

what a strange country, where contempt became a way of life ...