Mapping vs Modelling *ding* FIGHT! Created 18 years ago2006-03-15 22:51:57 UTC by Soup Miner

Reasons why mapping is better than modelling:
-Mapping is usually done by all by yourself(as opposed to one person modelling, one person UVing, one person skinning, one person animating, etc)
-A good map can last forevr, a good model can get old and be replaced
-Mapping communities aren't filled with realism whores who strive on correctly mirrored guns.
-Mappers tend to work much longer on a project than a modeller, thus bearing a generally better result
-Modellers only build worldly things. Mappers build the world itself.
-The majority of models are weapon hacks. 99.9% of maps are all from scratch.
-Mapping comunities don't have stupid nicknames for their members such as Darkeh(Darkstorn, a very well known modeller for his ak47 model)
-You can spend more time runing around testing an MP map by yourself than running around testing a custom model.
-There are no real specialities in mapping, unlike modelling which has animators, skinners, etc.
-There are no noob map requests like there are model requests.

Reasons why modelling is better than mapping:
-Modellers are far more recognized than mappers.
-There are far more modelling communities than mapping ones.
-If you build a model you are almost certain that someone will download and use it.
-Models can be used anywhere for anyone. Maps have to be used by everyone at once.
-Modelling has virtually no limits(provided that you have a good enough computr to keep up. Just keep adding bodies and 512x512 textures and you can do anything).
-You can usually request a model and get it, you cannot request a map.
-You can play with a custom model for longer than a custom map without getting tired of it(in most cases).

Just thought I'd put these out there, if anyone feels like adding anything go ahead and post it.

Just personal preference. I like both, actually, I think the only difference between them is basically the tools you create them with and the scope of them. You can use models as level parts just as well, and with some more specialized processing they suddenly become maps...

Quite some of the things you mention aren't really true, bytheway.
No specialization in mapping? How about the design part, lighting, architecture, art (after all, creating textures is for mapping what skinning is for modelling)?
Mapping all done by yourself? Reality is quite different in the bigger companies. Often multiple persons work on a single map in sequence.
No modelling limits? Sure are. Just as with mapping, this depends on the engine you're using.
You can request maps. There's people being paid for mapping.

So, in the end, I don't see a reason to fight, having experience with both.

Hm, they are kind of equal to me. Both are kind of the same difficulty to learn, and use. Both you can see the difference between noobs and masters. I like them both equally. Ive actually been getting into modeling, and its just as fun as mapping

People don't build a map, give it to someone else to texture it, and give it to someone else to put entities ni is what I was saying. Modellers usually make a modeller, have someone else skin it, and have another person animate it or use some animations that are already there

Hmm, yes I agree that modeling, then having someone else texture it, animate it, etc is wrong. I would never map, then have someone texture it, or do that with a model. I think your model should be 100% yours, animations, textures, etc. People need to stop being lazy

I prefer doing everything myself too, but at some point, when production times just become too long and/or your skills fall short, it really becomes interesting to ask a texture-artist or modeller. Same goes for modelling - if you're good with meshes but horrible with animations, it's only normal to ask a friend to animate your model. Nothing lazy in there.

I actually think it would allow interesting developments if mappers adopted a habit of asking texture-artists more. The overload of all-too-similar looking maps would certainly become less of a burden. Especially with Source and newer engines the amount of work to get the most out of it becomes overwhelming.

Another point for mapping:
-90% of the time a modeller will just recreate a real life ting, mappers create from their imagination.

I had two really good points for modelling last night but I woke up and forgot them, crap. Oh well, untill I remember what those two points are:
-Modelling has people like Stoke who just blow everything else out of the water(not to put down Kasperg or anything like that).

I actually think it would allow interesting developments if mappers adopted a habit of asking texture-artists more

Rimrook get your butt over here and make a post.

I like to be an all-rounder, for some of my hl1 (im not saying goldsource yarghhh!) maps i've created literally almost everything, mapping sounds sprites textures models, with only a tiny bit of valves content. I dont think they are mutually exclusive when it comes to source, mappers need to learn basic modelling to stop every map looking so prefabricated. It does becoming a little annoying when you see the same source props spammed over and over in most custom maps.

OK, OK!

Sheesh, chillax.

I think they are each equally imprtant. Mapping is just the environment, and you need models to live in that environment to make the experience more life-like or involving. There are many kinds of models and many styles of mapping.

Now, here's where it sways. A Modeler is the mapper's bitch if the mapper needs props and such. But the character modeler gets paid more than the mapper because he makes the one component you see the most and he's paid a fat-load to sell it. The mapper makes something thats a little less frequent. Sometimes there are areas in a game you see only once. Now, mappers are most likely to be promoted to LEAD GAME DESIGNER because they DO have an imagination. But not only that, they fully understand how everything reacts with what and where. Good mappers evolve into designers real fast in the industry.

Mappers start small, then pimp all.



EDIT: NO, mappers DO NOT DO IT ALL BY THEMSELVES.

You have a layout designer, concept artist, primitves, detailer, texture artist, lighting, and a level programmer.

BTW, when i get into the indusrty, i want to be the primitives guy.

@Salty: 'tis very true. At our level, mapping will get you more fame than anything else.

I like both, actually

Yeah, so do i. It's easier to make machines and junk using extrudes and lofted paths. Same for trees and foliage too.

1st of all a modeller cannot develope his own mod!
So this fact pawns all your facts!

Hey guys...
If you're a good mapper, you're a good mapper!!!
If you're a good modeller, you're a good modeller!!!
And if you knows how to animate better than you knows to model, go ahead, go to animate...

You can do everything by yourself if you know how to do, and if you feel right...
But sometimes is better call a friend to do something that you don't know...

I'm a kind of guy that make almost everything by myself...
I'm not the better mapper (illumination, architecture, textures, details), but I do it by my way...
I'm not the better modeller (model, animation, skining, textures), but I know enough to make my own monster and my own tree...
I'm not the better codder (AI, HUD, engine), but now, I'm trying to learn, and I already knows how to apply a effect on shooting, like a DynamicLight...

Sometimes, I come to this forum and ask you for something that I can't do by myself, and then, you give an answer that solves (or not) my problem...

And I agree with Captain... People needs to ask more to the skilled people...

hmm, after trying to model something today I realised that there do come times when its best to throw in the towel and ask a friend doing a 3d modelling course to do it for you a thousand times quicker and better!

If you have models you can make games but not fps games though. If you only have mapping you wont have anything. You need models for fps and mapping while for strategy and many other kind of games you need only modeling. Sprites are nice additions to both but we aren't talking about them.

Conclution= Modeling > Mapping

Some of the best modelers i know are mappers to. So i dont think all of your conclusions are taking the correct course.

Hell, some of em even make there own games, that definately beats mapping.

More points for modellers:
-Modellers are usually ex mappers
-The modelling community has Schmung(a brilliant modeller who is also a brilliant mapper and did several maps for TS)
-Customizing your game with custom models is a lot more fun than customizing your game with a custom map(honestly, would you rather go download a new map or a new model?)
-It is much easier to find a reskin for a model than a new wad for a map.

More points for mappers:
-Mappers are, indeed, usually the people who start mods(or at least more so than the modeller for the mod).
-Mapping, it seems, is a more social approch to the game(if poeple just got a model and went to a new map they usually talk about the map and leave the model alone).
-No modelling community can touch TWHL.

Notable persons:
-Schmung: Modeller, mapper
-3d_mike: Amazing mapper, texture maker, small time modeller with map props
-Stoke: A man of all seasons; Modeller, skinner, animator and amazing at all 3
-Rimrook: Mapper, texture maker
-Kasperg: Mapper
-Worldcraft Dude: The man...... what?
-Twinkie Masta: Modeller and skinner for Source
-Splinter: Best skinner around
-Jennifer!!: Famous animator
-Hav0c: fast-becoming famous animator
-Nipper: Hall-of-fame cs mapper noted for his 200+ (and sill going) maps

Rimrook, mapping is only the enviorment, modeling can be both the characters and both the terrain. Like in strategy games.

Yet again= Modeling > Mapping

And think of it in what job do you need mapping? Only making maps for FPS games which is hard to get and rare. Modeling isn't only for computer games.

But with a model of terrain you need to be able to build world brushes around it so you don't go through it(keep in mind I'm sticking to the HL1 method of mapping here).

No, mapping can be for any 3d game not just FPS. People can map for RTS or RPGs too.

And exactly since mapping is so varied, or rather, games are so varied, I see it as being similar to modelling. You just use different tools often and mapping tends to be larger-scale (as in, worlds instead of objects).
Both need some design to come to life, so to say. Both require textures. Both can be reused (prefabs/props)...

Both are just a list of vertices, faces, uv coordinates, some normal info and sometimes additional tags/scripts.

Note that I see mapping and level-design as two separate things. Mapping is the technical grunt-work, just like modelling. Level-design is the use of these things to create a playable (and hopefully fun) result.

I am a modeler, but I have FULL understanding of Source SDK and the original hammer. I prefer to model though, the rewards are sweeter, and I am better at it.

This really is pretty pointless, anyway, this one. They're both essential for modern games.