Warp Drive - For Real? Created 15 years ago2009-05-07 09:58:16 UTC by Tito

Here's a little interesting story I found that should fit right in with all the sci-fi fans here in TWHL: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519130,00.html

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article completely fails to have any relevant information or even come to a conclusion. Kinda completely inconsequential.

Sorry, I was about to click the link but then I noticed foxnews.com.

Sorry, I was about to click the link but then I noticed foxnews.com.

FoxNews is only re-posting this Space.com report just like some of the other news outlets like CNN or MSNBC do all the time. Strider, I did not figure you to be one to just jump blindly on the anti-FoxNews hysteria band wagon, without looking at the original source of the story. Now, don't take this the wrong way, I just don't believe a book should be judged by just simply it's cover, but I guess everybody is entitled to their opinions, anyway. But if it makes you feel better, here's a direct link to the original source of the (non-Fox) Space.com story: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/090506-tw-warp-drive.html

Even if it's not impossible, that doesn't make it possible for us with our current technology.

none of this is even new. I should have done the same as Strideh.

SO they actualy want to move the space not the object ? That's impossible...

How narrow minded of you ;o

Its not impossible until we scout the possibility out a bit more >_>

Never say never, but common' ,move the space ?

It's impossible I tell you. Human race will become extincted before any breakthrough discoveries like these will happen.

actually the theory that wormholes are folds in space is pretty commonly accepted.

It's already a proven fact that space can be bent, black holes do it all the time, even light gets bent by them. If this bend in space can happen, then why not a "localized space separation"? And according to the Space.com story, parts of space traveled faster than the rest of space in the rapid expansion following the big bang, or so it goes the theory.

So my guess is, any future warp drive would need to duplicate this form of propulsion that apparently happened eons ago. Of course, this type of science falls under the field of "Quantum Mechanics", which is by the way is an accepted and legit field of study in the scientific community. So it's like TheGrimReafer said......"Its not impossible until we scout the possibility out a bit more".

It's impossible I tell you. Human race will become extincted before any breakthrough discoveries like these will happen.

Yup. Good old terrorists with nukes. Bastards.

actually the theory that wormholes are folds in space is pretty commonly accepted.

He's right, give him a cookie.

wormholes are just a theory themselves, they just a made up the concept to explain other things. Don't get too excited over them, it's not like the existence of them has even been proved or ever will be, they are by no means commonly accepted within existence.

Well In my opinion, i'm just gonna sit and wait and see what happens.
Probably wont in our lifetimes but you never know.

What seems to be popular in theory lately is IF/THEN logic.

If there is such a thing as biological matter, then there is the possibility of biological energy. Stuff like that.

If you can fold matter, you can fold energy. Thus folding space which makes a wormhole. Honestly wormholes are tough based on that. Just master gravity, because time is faster than light, but Gravity is stronger than time. Gravity bends time. You bend time, you bend space on the 4th dimension rather than limiting the aspect to 3D space. Creating a time bubble that pulls a ship through space which creates a sort of 'hyperspace' that is not on the same time as everything in regular space. Plotting a course would be safe, since things wouldn't move or move nearly enough to make a difference. This would be retardedly fast as well and could possibly allow short travel to a variety of galaxies. However, bending time does not mean you can travel to the future or past, you just simply slow down or speed it up locally... feck i lost my train of thought...

You should be working for NASA instead, Rimrook. I bet you have Stephen Hawking's number on speed dial on your cell phone.

With all goofing aside, you do make a good point, even if it might be in general concept/theory kind of thing. When it comes to quantum mechanics, gravity, space-time, general relativity and the universe at large, all bets are off, we are just too intellectually backwards as a species to fully comprehend the true meaning of what is really the universe.

Oh ... I remember now!

Since gravity bends time, getting away from the sun and planets and other sources of gravity could speed up time. Based on Gravity Well theory, spending 1 month local time in space could be 4 months on Earth, just as an example. I maked pixture."Normalized" as in even squares as they expand further from the source. The tiles near the source and the ones further away are the same, just have a different ratio to scale.

A time bubble around a shuttle would be expanded in reverse. It is a known fact that Mass has the ability to hold gravity (mass stronger than gravity?). If you drop your space trousers and take an interstellar dookie, even that crap has a gravitational field because it has some kind of mass.
An object with a negative amount of mass would oppose gravity in respect to the laws of physics. So a bubble of negative mass emitted from a ship would expand the time around the ship locally. Who knows how that is done though.

Ok. I'm going in outer space so I can live longer. lol

[EDIT] Watched that image closely. So what the hell is happening in the middle of the earth ?

That picture is blown way out of proportion. Don't think that time stops in the center of the earth or anything.

You know, the more I think about this Warp Drive theory on traveling through worm holes, the more I keep remembering about the legendary Philadelphia Experiment.

The Philadelphia Experiment Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_experiment

wormholes are just a theory themselves

So is the Earth going around the sun. (Just in case by that comment you meant it was some kind of guess. A theory is not a guess.)

So is the Earth going around the sun.

No. Wrong. So fucking wrong.
The earth rotates around the sun. It's not a theory. We've watched it happen from space in real time.

A theory is something that has yet to be proven by empirical testing. String Theory is a theory. E=MC^2 is a theory. The earth rotating around the sun is not.

What do you smart asses know ... earth is flat !

Evolution is not.

Oh... well, tbh, I didnt check that. I just heard someone say it read it somewhere. Soo... better just ignore me then.

EDIT: But a theory still isn't a guess.

Hey, I don't want to scare you guys, but The_(c)Striker is on to something. I am sure he was joking about the earth being flat, but apparently there is a group of people that actually do believe the earth is indeed flat! They call themselves "Flat Earth Society", and there's a whole bunch of them all over the world.

Their official motto is: "Deprogramming the masses since 1547"

They claim to have proof that the earth is really flat, and they say the so called "evidence" proving the earth is round, like for an example NASA photos from space showing the earth as a round planet, are fake!

I gotta tell ya, these people are completely out of their minds!!! Anyway, here is their home page: http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Mneh, Tito guessed my joke

Well, after seeing that Flat Earth Society site, one can never be sure in this damn age. Now, I do think the earth is shaped like a doughnut. I heard Homer Simpson say it once.

Folding matter doesn't fold time. Also you gotta remember that it is all about relativity to the traveler and observer, going out in space may appear to go slower to an observer in length, but the person in space would have felt the exact same time, it's not like you live in slow motion. If you happened to have a space craft that could travel super close to the speed of and you where traveling to a planet 5 light years away at top speeds, to an observer it may seem like its taking a bit over 5 years, but to the traveler it would only actually seem like something like 5 days.

As for the time travel stuff, you're best theoretical bet would be to pass through a theoretical wormhole, therefor taking a short cut through some sort of nonexistent space and coming out on the other side of space in a different time space. And your best bet on making a worm hole according to some physicist is to get a butt load of stars all close to each other which as some of you said has been correct, using extreme gravity to speed yourself up, how you would survive the encounter I have no clue.

As for the time travel stuff

using extreme gravity to speed yourself up

Time travel can't happen in 3D space by relying on speed. Where did you hear that? The best you can do for yourself is stop time, locally, by moving the speed of light. But even that's impossible under Einstein's equation.

A fold in 3D space =/= moving faster than the speed of light.

World Crafter, I said traveling through a wormhole, that is by no means 3D space.

World Crafter, I said traveling through a wormhole, that is by no means 3D space.

So what it is ? 4D ? ( I know "4D persons" could see in 3D&2D , but us because we're 3D we can't see in 4D only in 2D ... so 4D is something like having a cube and seeing all its 6 faces at the same time)

yes cstriker, it is. 4D is like have a direction which extends out at a right angle to the x y and z axis. It is impossible to imagine, but if it would most likely be like the ability to perceive our 3D world in a 2D sense, giving you on extra direction beyond our 3 planes. I can't say for certain it'd be a 4th dimension, the 4th and beyond dimensions were again just made up to explain certain mathematical things.

Well you can imagine like this ( fast sketch ... mnyeah )Bill and Jim are 2D. Bill is outside the house. Jim is in the house. Bill can't see Jim. Jim can't see Bill too. But we can see both of them. That's because we have an extra dimension : the z axis.

Starting from this example we can understand a little more the 4D dimension too.
Let's presume now that Bill and Jim are 3D. Face to face. Bill can't see Jim's back. Jim can't see Bill's back too ! But if we were in 4D, we could see all their body parts at the same time ! Is this right ?

And there's a funny thing too. Each dimension is capable of "reproducing" a higher dimension than it. For example, we can sketch a 3D cube on a paper !

So here's a "sketch" of a 4D cube in 3D space :I heard there are scientists who say there's even a 5th dimension, but I won't go there, I'm not informed.

Just get someone to put a link to that imagining the tenth dimention thingy on here. It's showed up a few times.

Please don't post that stupid video. And Cstriker, you are wrong about that "producing a higher dimension" there are so many flaws in what you just said I don't know where to start correcting you, wee, forstarters that was not a 4d cube either, and it wasn't on a 3d space, it was represented on a virtually 2D space, and appeared to have 3 dimensions to it, when in fact it only had 2. We live among 3 dimensions, on paper, we can represent 3D objects in a 2D sense, much like any 3D video game, which is in fact not really 3D but rather virtually flat.

Don't try and represent anything 4D in the 3rd dimension, it's stupid. If you are going to try, at least do it in a real 3D space in front of people instead of a screen which projects things in 2D.

Excuse me. My bad. I forgot a small detail

What I showed you is actualy a tesserect. It's like the cube(3D) to a square(2D) relationship. But the tessarect(4D) is linked to the cube(3D) ...
Ah .. hard to explain

and it wasn't on a 3d space, it was represented on a virtually 2D space, and appeared to have 3 dimensions to it, when in fact it only had 2.

You wasted your time writing these lines. That's virtual 3D space yes, so why the hell did you even bothered to argue about that...

I'm not wasting my time, I'm just correcting you. A screen isn't a virtual 3D space, it represents things in flat 2D, a hologram would be a virtual 3D space.

Do you even know what a tesseract is by definition and not some silly picture, All the lines in the thing you just showed are actually at right angles to every other line in the 4th dimension.

Damn, I had no idea there were so many brainiacs on TWHL (I mean that in a good way).

Since we are in the subject of time travel, let me ask you all this question: Anybody here knows exactly what hell is a "Paradox"? I have heard that word being mentioned a few times over the years whenever the time travel subject popups.

Let me give you an example of what a "Paradox" could be created from:

Let's say that one day I decide to travel back in time to a period when my parents have not met each other yet, much less conceive me. Now, lets say that I meet them before knowing each other, and for some reason or other, I get in to an argument with them, and kill them. Now, common sense will say that with my future parents dead, I will no longer be able to be born and exist in this world. Now, here's the problem:

With my parents dead, me not being born at all and not existing at all as consequence to this, how will I have been able at all to have gone back in time in the first place to kill my parents if I did not exist in the first place to do so? This dilemma is what some people connect to it being a Paradox. But I think that's just a cheap way of putting it to simply when one does not know what really happened. I have never really heard no body in all my life explain in full detail what really is a full blown Paradox in all it's flavors. So if anybody here can expand further on this, please do.

I do have another possible explanation to all this, and it involves Parallel Universes. But I wont get in to that just yet, need to get drunk first so I can think better.

Worldcrafter, E=MC^2 is not a theory, it's been proven dude.
IT states that Energy Equals Mass times the speed of light squared. Since the speed of light is a constant of nature (CANNOT BE CHANGED) It states that the faster something is accelerated (Kinetic Energy K=M*V) The mass MUST increase because the speed of light cannot.

And this HAS to happen due to the fundamental laws of conservation of energy and conservation of mass.

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Anyway. I think we as a human race must grasp and understand the 4th dimension, whatever it may be, before any of this crap is possible.
But like i said before. It's not happening in my lifetime so i'm not going to worry about it. Unless i get contracted to study it somehow....
But i doubt as an electrical engineer i'm going to be thinking of ways of how to make a fold in space from here to Betelgeuse.

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And i believe a paradox would be like.. traveling back in time and talking to yourself?
It could also be two docks on a lake in a pair.

E=MC^2 hasn't been proven beyond practical purposes, that's why it's still not the Law of Relativity.
To prove it absolutely, light speed would need to be acheived. But because it states that an object moving at the speed of light would require and infinite amount of energy, it can't actually be proven.

World Crafter is actually correct, but that doesn't stop us from utilizing the rule.

Also Tito, wormhole time travel is highly theoretical, if I jumped out into another space time, who would know what would happen to the rest of the world, I assume if you go forward, then time is just distorted so greatly that it just seems like you went into the future, but you were really just preserved. But if you took the same shortcut back through space time, saying what would happen to the traveler is easy, but what the hell would happen to observers is the tricky part. Maybe you'll end up lost in eternal vacuum which isn't accessible in a 3D space, or maybe all your observer buddy with unconsciously travel backwards in the direction of time, so it would seem like a seamless flow to them, but since you are not in the 3D world at this time, you won't be age or memory affected, this would mean if you go back for your birth, you might get an identical sibling, provided you don't alter anything, probably best to wait until after the baby is born. OR you could create a parallel universe and it'd just be identical from the point of time you traveled to. Hell there could even be a chance you'll just destroy the universe, but I doubt that.

there could even be a chance you'll just destroy the universe

I like how lightly you put that.

Have you guys ever asked yourselves what was before the Big Bang ?
What if our Universe actually has a cycle ? I mean, right now we're expanding. But I suppose gravitation will pull back all the matter intro a big black hole or something, and it will explode again.
And where did the original matter came from ?
That's a question answerable ... only by religion ...

that's the beauty of all-powerful, you don't need to be able to answer it, god can just do these things, cause, he's god.

Also, the whole theory of the big bang is that all energy was at a singularity, and infinitely small point, like the whole universe as we know it compressed into a point. This then turned into the big bang. So that kind of answers your question. But what was before that, is like asking what comes after infinity.

Apparently God created the heavens and the earth. Perhaps he did, perhaps I didn't.

I think it's safe to say YOU didn't create planet Earth.

@Tito: A better example of a paradox:
This statement is a lie.
or
I know nothing.

But even religion doesnt have a definitive answer to that. Take a look Genesis Chapter

Wow, I never would have thought I will see a good chunk of the Holy Bible being quoted on TWHL's forum. Bravo for doing so, I liked it.

@Tito: A better example of a paradox:
This statement is a lie.
or
I know nothing.

That gave me goosbumps.

That bible quote burned my eyes, and therefore I was unable to read it. Or maybe I just imagined that and I just hate any and all bible quotes whether or not it was to prove a point.

Sorry, its just my open-mindedness just collided with my atheism. I usually viciously ignore anything and everything religious. But now you're talking about it.

People who hate all religion without discrimination are a stoopid.