Deep thinking Created 13 years ago2011-07-08 07:39:29 UTC by zeeba-G

wait, I thought this topic was about quantum physics?

DID SOMEONE SAY QUANTUM PHYSICS?! http://twhl.info/forums.php?thread=17621&page=last

That's a myth.

That's what they want you too think But yeah it is wrong obviously, if we did only use 10 - 15% lets just say life would be different.

:ninja:'d
The topic flowed, people got touchy about who they trust, and the topic got re-geared.
I honestly don't know why people get so defensive about their religious beliefs. Personally, I couldn't give a damn whether a deity or a explosion came to produce me. It happened ages ago, so either way, it doesn't affect me in the slightest, no matter what I believe.

Also, thank you for changing the topic, Mcrich114.

As for mind reading, I don't think the human brain is clear-cut enough for us to be able to clearly and completely understand anyone elses thoughts. Not anytime soon, anyhow.

twins do have some kind of connection, even ending up with the same, occupation, vehicle, spouses of the same name, etc, if they were separated at birth. It's been documented.

Probably because no-one gives a shit when they don't. It not happening is probably a hell of a lot more common. It's a really interesting subject though, I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

Bad news Scotch: Neither a deity nor an explosion came to produce you. Your father came to produce you

"There was no mother. I carried him, I gave birth, I raised him. I can't explain what happened."

• Scotch's father

Edit: Oh, you're referring to that meaning of the word came...

Science and religion talk bore me. I see deep thinking differently than many I guess...

Deep thinking is an " UN BYASSED" and un "CORRECTABLE" thing. Its just "ideas!" Quit using logic and crappy ideas to prove people wrong.

No one knows how anything actually came to be so don't assume you do. You can only "assume" that it is a possible option!

If anything, we could get some bad-ass ghost in the shell cyborg implants and bodies so we could talk wirelessly without physically speaking, personally see through cameras across the planet, use robotic limbs as our own, or live forever (as long as machines can keep a brain alive without a supporting organic body) <3

In that sense we could also have virtual reality that literally takes over our senses. That would make video-games and hands-on training awesome. You could learn to paint without actually using paint. Sports might even be fun if the game strategy and control is decoupled from physical prowess. We could be having this conversation "face to face".

I fantasize about this all the time Grim. The problem is, there's a constant battle going in my head on whether this is moral or not. Whether if... yes, God accepts this or not. It would be totally not fair to be "upgraded" and other people would have to struggle at their natural capabilities.

There is a very interesting site, called The Future Timeline. Go have a read there. It's really a lot of speculations when it comes to the far future, but the near future seems possible.

For example, it is said that by the next century bicentennials will appear. People born after the 60' will have the chance of living much longer, due to improved medicine. And who knows, by the time we'll be 100 some rejuvenation techniques will be invented.
I mostly fantasize though not about being able to live longer, but about being able to manipulate information much faster. I always was a very curious person, so I'm almost crazy about this idea, being able to retain lots of information, learn quickly and process quickly.
Well, I also watched Limitless, maybe that fueled my crave for this...

But at the end I start thinking "Hmm, not everybody is going to be able to access these things, 'la vie' will not be in 'rose', and the morality...

[EDIT] I also thought that in the future probably cryogenic storage of living bodies will be available. Could we use that to put ourselves to a long sleep( which won't feel "long' at all, probably just like a normal sleep) and 'skip' time? Which brings us to the next question: what is actually 'the passing of time'? If we can "skip" some to the future, can't we do this backwards? Or are we stuck on half of the arrow that represents time...

Just by being asleep doesn't mean you are actually skipping it, just not living it yet existing. I'm pretty sure going backwards will always be impossible.

Oh yes, good old time travel. What a great topic, any takes on it? And as for the cyborg stuff, seems cool but Possibly immoral, well more strange than anyhting I guess. It would be pretty awesome though!

I think by the time we reach that, if religion is true, God will come clean up shop.

Going forward in time is fully possible but going backwards is a whole lot trickier (if even possible) and will probably never be made possible for humans. They are currently experimenting with sending back individual particles. I'm sceptical to the whole idea. It would be really strange if it actually worked. Seems to me as you would have to break a few physical laws to be able to preform it.

And going back in time could be so catastrophic so I imagine that even if we had the technology we still wouldn't do it because of the obvious huge risks involved.

But the space-time continuum can't get screwed up ever in the future, otherwise we would have already felt the repercussions... right?

My take on time travel is this.

To go back in time in one single dimension would be catastrophic. Let's just forgo the fact that the means to perform such an act as travelling back in time would de-construct itself around you. Also, what's to say that you yourself would reverse your aging process until the point where you no longer exist?

If either of these scenarios were somehow avoided and it was possible for you to travel back, keeping your current form intact, what happens when you get there. If so much as a single person see's you, then the entire human race would become obsessed with this future technology and focus solely on it having now proved that it is in fact possible. Suddenly you've buggered the time line. Certain scientific advances would be overlooked in favour of time travel and the modern day which you return to (should you choose and be able to do so) would change dramatically. Hell, you may go back to the present day only to find that because of this, the human race has died out.

An ideal solution would be this. Time travel is possible, by jumping from one dimensional plane to another. That way, you can go back and do whatever you like, as to return you simply (heh) jump back onto your previous dimensional plane and life carries on as normal. That way, it would also be impossible for scientist government tards to go back and change things for their own gain. However, it would be possible for school children to go back and interview the likes of George Washington and Abe Lincoln in person without worrying about knocking over a vase and causing a nuclear holocaust or some shit.

Here's a thought. Time cannot be changed. It is a perfect constant thing always moving in the same direction. All that happens is within it and nothing can happen without it. Time is perfect.

Isn't it said that God is perfect? Therefor could God be time? Time is what allows us to exist and we are told he created us. Did time create us?

thats actually an interesting view point, zeeba

I wouldn't say that time created us. Time destroys mankind and everything it creates.

In that sense, time is the most powerful super weapon in existence, which probably explains man's desire to harness it.

As I said in the past, (if you search enough you'll find, I don't really want to post the thread link), I think I said that we don't have access to the 4 dimension, where we could see everything inside-out in the 3D world, also being able to manipulate time as we wanted. And probably after the 4th dimension there exists a greater dimension, the 5th dimension, which would be just like 'time' is to our dimension- not accessible, but participating at the changing of 4th dimension events.

Maybe God is the(or in the) 4th dimension. Perhaps this huge Universe is just a crystal ball.
And if God is holding this crystal ball, even though mankind is evil, He somehow managed to take care of Earth in its 4 billion history. Earth, the blue planet, so unique among the billions. Vast, luxurious life that makes this planet a living entity. We search the paradise, but it is here.
I am thankful to that.

Time travel = catch a wild Dialga.

We continue ourselves while time kills us off. We're kind of in a war against time, in a "big picture" kind of way... Once you can control time (not just travel), you can do any bloody thing. Maybe that should be considered a pinnacle of evolution, the purpose of life. Think about it... what can't you achieve with the manipulation of time? Create a new highly evolved creature in a matter of moments instead of millenia! Travel to the furtherest reaches of the universe in seconds! Go and collect your money from the bank a thousand years from now and get several billion dollars thanks to interest! Watch the creation of Earth in a David Attenborough-style time-lapse-y documentary! Ok, my imagination sucks. But can you see what I'm getting at?

EDIT, now that Strikers post has appeared: We don't know if anything is present in the dimensions above ours. If there's a god that exists in the fourth dimension, then maybe there's beings in dimensions even higher than him. Maybe god has a god.

1) There's no purpose in life.
2) There's no God, or other almighty being, that created the heavens and the earth.
2.5) If there was, and the [Christian] Bible is true, then Lucifer is our true saviour for he released us from our cage [Eden] and gave us thought.
3) Time is relevant.
4) No Earthling has ever come in contact with an intelligent organism from another planet, and most likely a human never will.
5) Teleportation would be the same as cloning, except with part A being erased for the benefit of part B.

But that's just what I think.

You guys have strange views on time. It's just another direction which we can't see but only notice the effects of. Harness time? Superweapon? Wat?

Thought about the thing I said about travelling back in time and causing a paradox. If time really does branch each time an event with several possible outcomes occours then you could possibly just travell to another branch where you also have been/will be born (by bending the fourth dimension through the fifth) and that should not cause any paradoxes as long as it isn't connected with our own branch anywhere but in the past. However I don't see any technology ever preforming thas trick. You can't just bend spacetime around as you wish.

Gah Boomer I feel for ya. Well Lucifer may have given us the ability to see right from wrong but I wouldn't follow him, i'm pretty sure he'd just use you for his own benefit and than throw you out like waste or make you serve him.

But thats just what I think.

Here's a thing to think about. When you've died and 100 years passed. Imagine if you could see whats going on in the world. And imagine what you would give to go back to your time so that you could affect the new age. Well here's your chance right now!

he'd just use you for his own benefit and than throw you out like waste or make you serve him.

So, God then?

Hey now, God didn't throw us out like waste or make us serve him. He just sat back and watched for a millennium or two. And He doesn't make us serve him, now, does he? You don't see that many people bringing peace, love, and goodwill towards men these days.

You don't have to be doing it to serve God, but I beleive that's what he wants.
EDIT: And furthermore, if we were made to serve Him, you wouldn't be an atheist, because he would have had to prove, without a doubt, that He existed in order to order us around.

I'm fairly sure the consequence of being sent to hell for eternity is supposed to be a way of forcing servitude.

Of course it's a pretty rubbish consequence since hell doesn't exist.

Hey, you just know this'll get out of hand. C'mon, just stop now, get back on topic. We're talking about time travel! And the higher dimensions.

I really hate it when people use the word "Dimension".

A dimension is defined as the minimum number of coordinates (thus properties) to define the state of a system. These include length/width/height/time. Dimensions likely include physical quantities that have been 'abstracted away' in every day thought processes like mass/charges/etc.

You can call something another plane of existence, but stop saying dimension; No one 'dimension' would encompass an entire reality, intelligence, or otherwise. A dimension is meant to be one quantity that interacts with other dimensional quantities to advance a state of some kind. If a bit in computer memory is a dimension, saying "God" exists in a dimension to itself is like saying programmers can write an artificial intelligence as smart as a person with only one bit. They symbolically mean stuff collectively, but not independently.

I just seen Inception.

irony!

The word Dimension is often confused with parallel universe. Far from the same thing.

And I would say discussing religion is deep and also necessary. Some people say that "it's a sensitive subject" and "it might offend people". Fuck that it's just as important to discuss religion as it is to discuss politics, perhaps even more important. Just look at the US goverment..

And I'm proud to live in obesity!
Where my stomach is always free!
And snap --
There went my belt
My shirt
And all of my liberty!

And I try to stand up,
but fail
My legs are too skimpy,
bet there ain't no doubt
I love this foooood
God, thanks for this mood!

I actually like reading this thread. So stop filling it with shit. Thanks.

Most people who Attempt Time Travel get very injured or Killed. End of Story.

So in a way brednamint

Bred n a mint?

Most people who Attempt Time Travel get very injured or Killed. End of Story.

lol, wat?

I would love to read some documented cases of this. Link pls.

In that sense, time is the most powerful super weapon in existence, which probably explains man's desire to harness it.

So if I wanted to destroy capitalism I'd just have to wait it out?

Worked with the USSR, so technically it's a valid proposition

Go watch Déjà Vu starring Denzel Washington.

Most people who Attempt Time Travel get very injured or Killed

i read a book in the library about meditation which leads to time travel, ages ago. it said you can time travel with your mind, but only few experienced people can time travel physically though its dangerous, because your body can get lost in space/time in the transition.

thats what the book said, anyway

Madcow, I completely agree, religion should be discussed. But all too often what goes on here isn't "discussion", just bashing each other's beliefs. I love a good religious discussion.

What happens is that a significant amount (so as not to say "all") of religious folks get really pissed off when they beliefs are challenged by simple questions they can't answer, and react violently rather than accepting a civilised discussion.

I was about to add something internet-related, but it happens in real life just as often.

What happens is that a significant amount (so as not to say "all") of religious folks get really pissed off when they beliefs are challenged by simple questions they can't answer, and react violently rather than accepting a civilised discussion.

i am willing to discuss differnt view points, i enjoy hearing peoples ideas on differnt religions and theorys and I enjoy telling people about the ideas i believe in.

what do not like is when people go ahead and put down and insult my beliefs simply because its not "logical" or i don't have precise answers for them.
i am glad that i can agree to disagree though, we are entiltled to our opinions, no matter how bizare we may think the other persons opinions are.

I say religious people often get pissed off because they really want to impose their point of view. Also, a lot of them are really annoyed if they're proven wrong.

It's really simple. Act calmly. I'm not really angry anymore on people who try to disprove me because I accept some of the imperfections religion has.
What they have to realize is that a non-belief system is also imperfect. But most of them do realize this.
So, equal-equal situation is much better than a fight right?

Since we're discussing religion(I hope not for long, because I feel it's going to derail soon), here's something... I just heard of today: Church of KopinismPiracy

What flaws do you find in a non-belief system Striker?

What flaws do you find in a non-belief system

try this - not believing in something doesnt mean its not real.

for example, if someone says "i wont go to hell because i dont believe in it" doesnt mean that hell isnt real, simply because they dont believe in it

What happens is that a significant amount (so as not to say "all") of religious folks get really pissed off when they beliefs are challenged

The same is true of a significant amount of atheists. It's a human nature thing, not a religious (or lack thereof) thing.
Personally, I beleive in God, I beleive in an afterlife. I respect your right not to, and I also beleive that, as long as you're a good person, you'll go there whether or not you beleive it exists when you die.

But that's just me.

try this - not believing in something doesnt mean its not real.

for example, if someone says "i wont go to hell because i dont believe in it" doesnt mean that hell isnt real, simply because they dont believe in it

Try this - simply believing in something doesn't make it real.

for example, if someone says "when I die I will go to a paradise" won't prevent them from just dying and being eaten by worms.

I wonder if genetic engineering will ever get advanced enough that we could create genuine Pokémon.

I sat in a box, and I went 5 minutes into the future, was epic.

I wish cryogenic freezing would work, but everybody in it keeps dying. It would be awesome to go into the future.

NineTnine believes that some people can perform thought-based time travel because he read it in a book.
Know what else he believes in because he read it in a book?
Yeah.
Take from that what you will.

I've said it so many times before - I don't have a problem with people who believe in God or I suppose even believing in an afterlife.
Some people need that reassurance and I accept that.

But can someone religious please just answer this question in a concise, straightforward way:
Why won't you think for yourselves?! Why do you follow an organised religion which repeatedly gets proven (yes, proven) wrong on some matters? Not so long ago Christians thought dinosaur bones were either faked, or placed there by Satan to test their faiths. Even today, some people are still crazy enough to think that dinosaurs lived with man 4000 years ago.
With such obviously flawed views (and that was only one example) which most sane Christians are sensible enough to disagree with, why do you buy into the other stuff? If half of it is proven bullshit, why do you insist on believing the other half?
Why can't you say "Ok, this religion was made at a time when we didn't know enough about these issues. It's clearly not relevant today. I shall choose to worship my idea of god in my own, modern and relevant way."
If your god is merciful as you claim, why should it matter if you follow an actual organization which is a pile of bollocks more interested in control and money than the religion they spout.

My ideal world would have no religions at all. (READ! No religions, not no belief). They served their purpose since the beginning of mankind (pre-dating Christianity by a few thousand years I might add) but they have no place in modern society.
If people want to believe in a God, they should do so in their own way and choose to believe what they want rather than being brought up a specific religion.

Here's another question to you Christians:

Imagine you were born in Saudi Arabia, the centre of the Islamic faith. Your parents were Muslim and taught you about the Qur'an from a very early age.
Would you be a Christian today? Of course not, you'd be Muslim.

How is this different from being brought up in a Christian family?
You might think you made a choice at some point in your life to believe in god, but I bet a large number of you were brought up in Christian families.

Hunter, you're just coming across as antagonistic. We know your opinion by now, and it's actually one I somewhat agree with, but please just stop.

You're welcome to discuss it, but this right here is 'politely inflammatory', and you know it.

I don't want to have to clean up another religious thread that spun out of control, when this was doing so well to begin with.

I am aware that I'm repeating things I've said before, but only because I've never gotten an answer to these basic questions.
If it's antagonistic, it only proves that religious people are scared to think for themselves, because such simple questions should not provoke an angry response. If they do, I should not be held responsible, because that's not the response I want.

More inflammatory points are made in a debate about dish soap and nobody censors those discussions. Religion should not be treated as a sensitive subject which is hidden away, and you should perhaps ask yourself why it is.

I'm genuinely sorry if you feel that I'm deliberately trying to provoke an outburst. I absolutely am not, but these topics must be discussed. If they're not then nothing will ever change.

I will admit that my addressing of NineTnine at the start of the post is harsh, but it's in response to several of his posts and I feel it's only fair to respond in a similar manner to the way he posted.

I agree with Archie. We've said much harsher things to eachother when discussing other things, but once it comes to religion suddenly the rules change. It's unfair. We're not trying to pick a fight, we just want answers.

Imagine you were born in Saudi Arabia, the centre of the Islamic faith. Your parents were Muslim and taught you about the Qur'an from a very early age.
Would you be a Christian today? Of course not, you'd be Muslim.

Of course, but that's because of the different religions. It's how people think. You'd think in Muslim ways because you were raised to and taught to.

People grow christain because they are raised to and taught to. Religion has to do with how people think.

The point Dimbark is that likely he didn't decide to be a Christian himself. He was raised to be a Christian. If the very same family lived in a country where they had a different religion most likely he wouldn't call himself a Christian today.

Being raised to believe in something takes away the freedome of choice.
A radical example could be; imagine if you were raised a Nazi. You would believe that all jews deserve death and since you were raised to believe that then to you everyone else is wrong and you are the one who is in the right.

I'm not comparing Christians to nazis, I just made a radical example to make a point.

we just want answers.

And you know goddamned well you're not going to get [polite] 'answers'.

I know you're both trying to ask in a respectful manner, but you're not, you're dropping comments that you know are going to provoke him, and you're still bringing up the exact same thing as before.

EDIT: I agree, nobody should be 'raised' on religion, they should wait until the kid is old enough to make their own choices, their own beliefs and choose their own paths, not be raped from the beginning and have religion constantly rammed down their throat.

But on the opposite extreme, if you leave them out of religion until they're older, then chances are they'd have grown up around a lot of atheist kids who believe religion is bullshit and people who believe it are complete morons, and then they grow up to hate religion.