A Bug in my jb map Created 7 years ago2017-06-10 14:49:02 UTC by GMK_5

Hi, I'm working on a jailbreak map of CS 1.6 at the moment and theres a new bug that showed up while i was testing it in-game which consists on some kind of leak i guess although i don't have any leaks in my map and Hammer doesn't give me any PTS file so it is not a leak ( I think ).
Here are the images of the bug: http://imgur.com/a/96K1A

http://imgur.com/a/EvJ9e

Before the last compiling session i discovered an extremely tiny hole leading to the Void, http://imgur.com/a/O2O52 I closed it but Nothing changed. In addition, this bug only appears when i stand in a specific spot in the map. Please Help, Thanks.

Probably a VIS error. Did you convert all the small detailing brushes into func_detail? If it's a VIS problem then you should try to place some HINT brushes.
Also, can you fall through those "leaks" into the void? If no then it should be a VIS error.

It's definitely a VIS error, be it a leak or not. xd

Also, don't use Hammer. Use Sledge Editor or J.A.C.K. Those 2 are currently the best alternatives.

Hmm, you know what you could try?
When you enter the compile dialogue (F9), turn on Full VIS.

While I cannot directly help about the VIS error, I'd just like to demonstrate how to properly embed pictures into forum posts on TWHL:

Step 1.
Type [your account name].imgur.com/all/ into the URL bar:Step 2.
Click the image you want to embed:Step 3.
In TWHL's case, just copy the BBCode:Step 4.
Go back to the TWHL post and press Ctrl+V to paste it.

Thank you for listening.

Thanks Ademr456 for the tip ^^
I tried fast compiling( without VIS and RAD ) and the bug didnt appear so it is definetly a VIS problem. Im compiling using the Advanced Mode since i have some wads to include. But what are the HINT bushes and how can i use/place them?

Oh, cool, so you're already compiling in Expert mode.
Hmm, well, Hint and Skip brushes are a pretty weird topic for beginners, since you need to understand how portals and VIS stuff works in general.

I.m.o. you don't need to use them right now, since there are definitely some problems somewhere. Can you upload the RMF file into the vault so we can see what's wrong?

Maybe he just placed too many small world brushes. Every world brush blocks VIS, and if there are too many small wbrushes or a very detailed single wbrush (Like cylinder), this may cause VIS to do weird things.

I'd recommend to convert such things into func_detail entities and if the shape of such brushwork is too complex then you should also put a less detailed CLIP brush over it.

But as Admer said, it would be better if you upload your map so we can look into your problem.

Ok, looks like I'm totally not being helpful.

@Admer456

Hint and Skip brushes are a pretty weird topic for beginners

I'll be honest - don't even I know how to properly use these.

okay i will upload both of the rmf and the bsp:
RMF: https://www.sendspace.com/file/oytv5e
BSP: https://www.sendspace.com/file/yedis2
Also Here is the log of my VIS part while compiling:

--- BEGIN hlvis ---
Command line: D:\tools\hlvis.exe "d:\vhe\maps\jb\jb coldzone\jb_coldzone_v3"
Arguments: "d:\vhe\maps\jb\jb coldzone\jb_coldzone_v3" -low
4012 portalleafs
13749 numportals

= Current hlvis Settings =
Name | Setting | Default
------------------|-----------|------------------------
threads [ 4 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 33554432 ] [ 33554432 ]
max vis distance [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
priority [ Low ] [ Normal ]

fast vis [ off ] [ off ]
full vis [ off ] [ off ]

BasePortalVis:
(17.52 seconds)
LeafThread:
(10465.41 seconds)
average leafs visible: 574
g_visdatasize:815404 compressed from 2014024
10483.62 seconds elapsed [2h 54m 43s]

--- END hlvis ---

By the way i can not find the func_detail entity, are you sure that it exists for Half Life ? ( CS 1.6 )

Dude, you forgot the textures. I can handle it without them though

EDIT: The map is pretty messy. Found some intersecting brushes.

EDIT 2: There are many brushes which can be replaced with one single brush. They even have the same texture.

OK, first of all, get VHLT tools and also use the zhlt.fgd which comes with them.
func_detail isn't strictly an entity, since it only marks a world brush to be ignored by VIS. But it comes part of zhlt.fgd, so you must have it.

Though, the Sven Co-op forums seem to be under maintenance right now, at least on my end. Hmm...

@GMK_5

Also, crates on your map are world brushes and intersect with other w(orld)brushes. Convert them to func_details and reposition them.

Poor VIS.

EDIT: Beds at the cells are made of intersecting wbrushes. You know what to do.

Lots of intersecting wbrushes. Your map needs some serious work.

Textures are taken from different wads from here and there, here are all of them:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/pezz89
Got the zhlt tools as well as the fgd file, Now just tell me what do do Exactly.

Ok, just lemme unpack the textures and set my editor up.

I can't really tell you if that's the problem, but here's what I found:There are two other brushes under this one. One of these intersects with an another brush:Sorry, but I'm not really sure if that's what causes the bug
I'll keep looking into it though.

Don't get ZHLT. Get VHLT.
Zhlt.fgd and zhlt.wad are simply legacy from the previous-gen ZHLT compilers.

Just make sure to include zhlt.wad in your texture list, as well as including zhlt.fgd in your Game Data File list. Also, don't forget to actually use the VHLT compilers you downloaded.

Next, please fix the intersecting brushes, as Windawz said, and make sure to use the grid. Always keep Snap to Grid on. And avoid using the Carve tool, except in some special situations.

@Windawz
Just so you know, there's this Snipping Tool in Windows 7. It's handy for screenshots. :3

@GMK_5

Also, I suggest you to convert all crates on your map to func_details. They're all wbrushes and that's not good for both CSG and VIS.

EDIT: One more weird thing:@Admer456

Just so you know, there's this Snipping Tool in Windows 7. It's handy for screenshots. :3

Sometimes I think that you're just mocking me. No need to do that if so, I get that I'm a terrible person :/. I you aren't then sorry, I'm just being paranoid.
Thanks anyway

No, I wasn't mocking you. You remember how you once didn't cut out the taskbar from the screenshot, right? Well, I was just mentioning the Snipping Tool right now so you could use it next time and skip the cropping. xd

I didn't cut it because I was so tired I just used PrtSc instead. Then I pasted it directly to imgur and had to wait until it uploads, the size of the image was really high.

Work Done:
*All of the Crates are now func_detail tied as well as beds.
*Removed some useless brushes.
*Re-worked the walls of the cells That @Windawz Mentionned.
The brushes that @Windawz mentionned that are situated under 1 brush in the cage and that are intersected are needed for the Cage Games, If you look next to the cage you can see some buttons that are made for these games.
What to do next?
Thank you all for the help that you provided me until now.

@GMK_5

Well, try to compile your map. If the bug still occurs, then probably Admer can help, because I don't have any other ideas yet. The map should compile faster now.
I also found a lot of intersecting brushes in some other regions of the map.

@Windawz
If you wouldn't mind please tell me their places, no need to upload images
Also I will compile later because the compiling will take time in spite of the work done and I have other work with the computer

Although it would be better if I upload images, here are the places:

-Light fixtures at the cells are wbrushes that intersect with eachother. Convert to func_detail

-Two ground wbrushes intersect near that trigger_push thing (I have no idea what it is)

-Castle towers intersect with castle walls.

There can be a lot of other intersecting brushes, these are the most obvious ones. I'll try to find more.

Error: Exceeded MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES

I have no idea what this error is.. can anyone help please? Here s the new rmf: https://www.sendspace.com/file/m6rzz7

Your map has too many faces that create collide-able surfaces. Use clip brushes to simplify the geometry by covering complex brush work like lamps and other small objects with them.

After hours of compiling it wasnt done successfully:

added 15 additional animating textures.
Warning: ::FindTexture() texture NULL not found!
Are you sure you included zhlt.wad in your wadpath list?
Warning: ::FindTexture() texture TRAMPOLINE not found!
Warning: ::LoadLump() texture NULL not found!
Warning: ::LoadLump() texture TRAMPOLINE not found!
Texture usage is at 3.38 mb (of 8.00 mb MAX)
16.06 seconds elapsed
--> although i have included the zhlt.wad but still i got this error, what to do?

Error:
for Face 26 (texture IceGround_7) at
(2729.000 -2065.000 -343.000) (2729.000 -2065.000 -350.000) (2729.000 -2061.000 -350.000) (2729.000 -1569.000 -350.000) (2729.000 -1569.000 -282.000) (2729.000 -1663.000 -282.000) (2729.000 -1801.000 -282.000) (2729.000 -1880.000 -282.000) (2729.000 -1888.000 -282.000) (2729.000 -2016.000 -282.000) (2729.000 -2024.000 -282.000) (2729.000 -2065.000 -282.000)
Error: Bad surface extents (32 x 5)

--> I guess i fixed this error by re working the brushes
But how can i check if these problems without waiting hours of compiling? does fast compiling help?

Try to transfer a chunk of your map you have problems with into another map (a simple box for example, doesn't matter). This way you can significantly speed up the compilation.
I'd recommend you to start a new map instead. No offense but your current map is very messy. You can still copy some ideas though, so creating a new clean map is the best option.

After hours of compiling? Man, you seriously need to get VHLT. Also, just set VIS to fast if it's taking too long and you just want to see small changes.

https://forums.svencoop.com/showthread.php/42174-Vluzacn-s-ZHLT-v34-Update

Their forums are back online, hooray. Anyway, I think that you should put zhlt.wad into the same folder where CSG, BSP, VIS & RAD are located. I've never moved them out and it has worked.

And yes, your map seems too messy. Practice first, and then proceed making a map. (even though, hahahah, that wasn't my case)

I think VIS takes so long because of... Just look:So yeah, the best GMK_5 can do is to create a new map.

Yeah, create a new map and get a better map editor. J.A.C.K. or Sledge. xd
(cough cough J.A.C.K. is better cough cough)
They're very similar to Hammer, and far more capable compared to it.

It's not the editor fellas, hammer has been used for well over a decade and it's fine. Just because there's a better hammer doesn't mean the old one doesn't work.

That being said... The new compile tools are better in every way. They're more efficient and produce better results all the while giving you better feedback in the console; get them.

From what I've been seeing from the screenshots, it looks like there's some pretty sloppy brushwork and the engine is having a hard time with it - it could also be the dated compile tools.

have you tried running the level in wireframe mode to see when exactly the vis bug occurs?

Well i have already made some maps that were working well in servers but this map is my 1st for the jb mode, It seems like mapping in this mode is difficult. Instead of making a new map, is it possible to rework that area where the cage is in order to fix the bug?
@Tetsu0 No i have not tried that, how can I ?

@GMK_5

Reworking the area is not going to be easy. If I were you I'd just start a new map.
Just use Google and you'll find VHLT. Very useful thing, trust me.

Sure, you could rework every area which is broken. xd

And in order to run the level in wireframe mode:

1. Open the game
2. Open the console
3. Type "map [your map name]" (without the quotation marks "")
4. In the map, type sv_cheats 1
5. Then type restart
6. After the restart, open the console and type gl_wireframe 1

The problem is his map has too many areas to rework.

It will not be easy to rework that area, thats for sure, it will take some time. I understand that creating a new,fresh map is the best option for now in order to avoid such mess, but this will take ages and i dont really have the time for it at the moment. I think that I will try to re-work that area where the cage and some doors are, maybe the castle turrets out there too.
By the way, I tried compiling the map (got the necessary tools for it), and I noticed that the bug does not show up in the very 1st places anymore, but instead this dissappears: ( VIS is set to fast, not full )One more question, How can i see when exactly the vis bug occurs with the wireframe mode?

You need to understand how does VIS work and what is a VIS leaf. Sadly even I don't understand it completely (I'm too lazy to read anything about how VIS works).
As I said, copy a part of your map which you have problems with into an another map and then experiment with it.

So, that thing disappears?
Alright, I need you to stand at that place which makes it disappear and then open the console. If you see something like "Too many entities in visible packet list" then you're screwed.
I also noticed that your framerate drops from 100 to 88fps. Hmm...

:/

Maybe you should try separating each brush on that fence? Because the entire fence, as a whole, disappears. Just convert them back to world and then tie each brush individually.

Sadly, not even I know much about VIS, though, @Windawz it could be useful if you'd link me that documentation.

Also, there are no problems about a map having a lot of areas which need a rework. My example is my old school map. Before the event at the school (I played CS 1.6 in school, lol), I totally had to fix the school map. I dealt with many intersecting world brushes, wrong texturing, and so on... and I managed to fix it all in a few days. Of course, I still didn't have the courage to run full VIS. x(

No, there s nothing in the console when i stand there. I will try and do what you suggested, and i want to know about the difference between full VIS and Normal VIS and no VIS.
@Ademr456
"I dealt with many intersecting world brushes, wrong texturing, and so on... and I managed to fix it all in a few days." (IDK how to quote xd)
I guess thats the case in my map so isnt re-working that area a good option? ( I know, creating a fresh one may be the best, but..)

@GMK_5

Try launching full VIS. This may help.

Also, VIS in Source works almost the same way it does in GoldSrc, so here's some VDC documentation:

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Visibility_optimization
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Visleaf

This should explain how does VIS work if you read carefully. I also recommend to read it multiple times.

Thank you @Windawz for the tips and infos about VIS, read them all and i have to be honest that i did not understand all of it, but still i caught some new infos.
I had to remove many other unecessary brushes, reworked a bit the area around the cage and used the func_detail entity. I have also compiled the map with full VIS ( It didn't take hours like before ) and it seems like the bug has dissappeared (hopefully, we ll see).
One more small thing: When i used the tools that you guys adviced me to use, Hammer Does not read my (new) lights.rad file anymore.
Besides there is a little "ignorable" error that i noticed in the logs ( this isn't a new error, I had it long time ago but i didnt find a way to fix it so i thought you may give a hand ) :

Warning: Ambiguous leafnode content ( EMPTY and SOLID ) at (854,1264,51)-(872,1389,52) in hull 0 of model 0 (entity: classname "worldspawn", origin "", targetname "")

Also Here is the part of the log for lights.rad: (just in case)

Reading texlights from 'C:\OTHERT~1\lights.rad'
0 opaque models
0 opaque faces
19449 faces
Create Patches : 61332 base patches
620829 square feet [89399432.00 square inches]
56 direct lights and 16386 fast direct lights
2 light styles

Use info_texlights instead of obsolete lights.rad. Just disable SmartEdit, Press add and in the "Key" type in the name of the texture and in the "Value" type in the values of Red, Green, Blue and the Brightness. You can store many values in this entity, plus it's individual for every map.

There's also info_translucent. It's like info texlights, but it's more flexible and you need a separate info_translucent for every texture light.

Func_detail is also useful if some brush has disappearing faces. It usually happens when it's off the grid (like the support pillars on DM-Fractal) and the only way to fix it without repositioning the brush is to convert it to func_detail.
Good luck!

Windawz, you mean light_surface? info_translucent has quite a different purpose

Oh shit, sorry. Of course it's light_surface. Just didn't sleep that night so I said this weird thing.

And how about the error: Warning: Ambiguous leafnode content ( EMPTY and SOLID ) at (854,1264,51)-(872,1389,52) in hull 0 of model 0 (entity: classname "worldspawn", origin "", targetname "")
It can be ignored i guess, but preferably fixed.

Can't say what does that exactly mean. Try looking into the error guide.

EDIT: Here's an ancient thread on TWHL. Read carefully: http://twhl.info/forums.php?thread=18413

You probably used clipping tool too much or didn't snap something to grid.

Also check your map for problems by pressing Alt+P.

Thank you all for the help, I guess the problem is solved now thanks to your helps, made sure that all your names are in the Special Thanks of the map. Cheers

You're welcome.