Journal #8300
Posted 11 years ago2013-12-07 05:10:33 UTC
My Windows 8.1 adventure:
Hour 1: Jesus backflipping Christ this is the worst thing I have ever used. Why is there no shut down button? Why is there no X to close windows? WHY ARE THERE NO WINDOWS IN A WINDOWS OS?
Hour 2: Fucking hell, I had to spend £5 just to get a proper Start Menu (off the great guys who made Objectdock which I've used for years, incidentally).
Hour 3: OK, most of my programs are re-installed or repaired... Seems to be vaguely working. But wtf is this metro shit? Right, disabling that altogether. Third party software required to do so.
Hour 4: Ok, so it took me 4 hours just to disable the password login at startup. I am the only person who uses this PC. I do not need a password screen preventing me from leaving it booting up. Why is this shit hidden behind a command prompt, 6 menus and a properties button?
Hour 5: OK, in fairness it does boot up incredibly quickly. The reason I know this, however, is because I'm having to restart every five fucking minutes as I make major changes to the UI. Also some things are crashing worryingly often and 'End Task' is as reliable as it was in Win7 (i.e. not at all) WHERE IS 'END PROCESS'??!?!
Hour 6: I very much enjoyed the simplicity of gadgets in Win7. They weren't pretty, but having a big clock and temperature readouts of my hardware on my second monitor was very useful. This is literally impossible in Win8 because Desktop mode is basically not supported. More third party software required. Went with the often-praised RainMeter and despite its terrible UI (For a UI changing program, go figure) it has actually done a pretty great job.
Hour 7: Win8 has a good App Store. Seriously, there're some really useful things like a dedicated Netflix app. OH THEY CAN'T BE USED IN DESKTOP MODE? WONDERFUL. Well, OK, I'll just make a shortcut to them that'll launch Metro. OH YOU CAN'T. Oh someone on Google has figured it out with an idiotically complicated shortcut available for download? Oh nice, it works. Let me just add the shortcut to StarDock because I enjoy an icon-free desktop. NOPE. DOESN'T WORK.
Hour 8: Watched Netflix on Chrome like usual.
SO much style over substance, that was horrible. It's pretty much in a workable state now, but that took a LOT of Rainmeter tinkering and disabling the Metro UI altogether. Managed to get Ultramon and Objectdock working again as well, so it's starting to feel more like my beautiful Win7 setup. I guess it's not as bad as a Mac because I was eventually able to set it up properly, but the fact that it TRIED to be as bad as a Mac and then hid all the advanced options to change it back is forecasting Windows going in a scary direction. Stick to your strengths, lads.
Hour 1: Jesus backflipping Christ this is the worst thing I have ever used. Why is there no shut down button? Why is there no X to close windows? WHY ARE THERE NO WINDOWS IN A WINDOWS OS?
Hour 2: Fucking hell, I had to spend £5 just to get a proper Start Menu (off the great guys who made Objectdock which I've used for years, incidentally).
Hour 3: OK, most of my programs are re-installed or repaired... Seems to be vaguely working. But wtf is this metro shit? Right, disabling that altogether. Third party software required to do so.
Hour 4: Ok, so it took me 4 hours just to disable the password login at startup. I am the only person who uses this PC. I do not need a password screen preventing me from leaving it booting up. Why is this shit hidden behind a command prompt, 6 menus and a properties button?
Hour 5: OK, in fairness it does boot up incredibly quickly. The reason I know this, however, is because I'm having to restart every five fucking minutes as I make major changes to the UI. Also some things are crashing worryingly often and 'End Task' is as reliable as it was in Win7 (i.e. not at all) WHERE IS 'END PROCESS'??!?!
Hour 6: I very much enjoyed the simplicity of gadgets in Win7. They weren't pretty, but having a big clock and temperature readouts of my hardware on my second monitor was very useful. This is literally impossible in Win8 because Desktop mode is basically not supported. More third party software required. Went with the often-praised RainMeter and despite its terrible UI (For a UI changing program, go figure) it has actually done a pretty great job.
Hour 7: Win8 has a good App Store. Seriously, there're some really useful things like a dedicated Netflix app. OH THEY CAN'T BE USED IN DESKTOP MODE? WONDERFUL. Well, OK, I'll just make a shortcut to them that'll launch Metro. OH YOU CAN'T. Oh someone on Google has figured it out with an idiotically complicated shortcut available for download? Oh nice, it works. Let me just add the shortcut to StarDock because I enjoy an icon-free desktop. NOPE. DOESN'T WORK.
Hour 8: Watched Netflix on Chrome like usual.
SO much style over substance, that was horrible. It's pretty much in a workable state now, but that took a LOT of Rainmeter tinkering and disabling the Metro UI altogether. Managed to get Ultramon and Objectdock working again as well, so it's starting to feel more like my beautiful Win7 setup. I guess it's not as bad as a Mac because I was eventually able to set it up properly, but the fact that it TRIED to be as bad as a Mac and then hid all the advanced options to change it back is forecasting Windows going in a scary direction. Stick to your strengths, lads.
60 Comments
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Why in the name of all thats good did you not install Windows 8.1?
Why would you install an regular start menu when Metro is a shit ton better?
Give it some time to configure it, i first thought it was shit until i realized it is much much better than an normal pop up start. The shut down and computer/network info buttons are on the pop up menu accessed by pointing to the top right or bottom right corner of the screen.
You can also shut down with ALT F4.
To end an process press DELETE like in every windows before.
Plus Windows 8.1 task manager has more information, such as resource monitor with graphs, and better program overview. As well as startup control.
Install windows 8.1, why why why did you install 8???
Don't disable metro for some third party bug script. Upgrade to windows 8.1 and you will see it is much different.
"Why would you install an regular start menu when Metro is a shit ton better?" Because it's unobtrusive, works well and more than anything it's what I'm used to. I want to be able to access my computer's contents from the desktop. I don't want to switch to a fullscreen UI just to do that.
"Give it some time to configure it, i first thought it was shit until i realized it is much much better than an normal pop up start." I am using a desktop. The Metro UI was designed for touch interfaces. What you are describing is known as Stockholm Syndrome.
"The shut down and computer/network info buttons are on the pop up menu accessed by pointing to the top right or bottom right corner of the screen.
You can also shut down with ALT F4." Ok.
"To end an process press DELETE like in every windows before." Didn't know that. What is gained by removing the on-screen button for this?
"Plus Windows 8.1 task manager has more information, such as resource monitor with graphs, and better program overview. As well as startup control." Yes. All very good. Works nicely in desktop mode, as well.
I'm not saying don't have the Metro system. I'm just saying don't have the Metro system at the expense of the desktop system.
Microsoft is acting like George Lucas; they seemed to have complicated and ruined what was good, and are trying to extinctify Windows 7.
You have an desktop and windows UI just like in all previous versions, where Start has been replaced by an more functional and more use friendly metro start menu.
The only thing different in UI from windows 7 is the position of certain system access buttons and the way to access the shut down menu (as well as already mentioned start menu being replaced by metro).
Why did you even install windows 8.1 if you cant get used to such minor changes?
Also Dimbark don't talk shit if you didn't try it. From my point of view, as an person that uses his computer with knowledge of every system aspect windows 8.1 is neater and more organized, as well as having an better core system.
Bitching because of small things is acting like an old grampa who cant get used to having a new remote.
As for end task, either you're not using windows 8.1 or idk, youre blind.
'End Task' is not the same as 'End Process' and implying that a 'start menu' that is so obtrusive it actually acts as a fullscreen app with a mess of icons is somehow better than something used for quick access to your system is bonkers.
Metro start allows the same functionality as start in windows 7. Press start > write app name > app appears in menu on the right, as well with suggestions.
It is equally functional and at the same time more neater and tidier. Plus you have the regular access to all installed programs by using down function.
Learning to operate an system with keyboard shortcuts will significantly increase your productivity.
The Start menu I have now takes up roughly an eighth of the screen, and amazingly, I can still navigate with it, search on it, change options through it and get to all my commonly used programs on it.
EDIT: Oh, not to mention see the rest of the screen.
It just shouldn't be used with a keyboard and mouse. Microsoft didn't give anyone the option because they wanted to sell more surface tablets.
And if they think they can or should do away with the keyboard and mouse control scheme, they have no business anywhere near the tech industry.
Most of the aesthetic stuff is just opinion, (I had to take a bit to get used to the Vista/7 UI before I was cool with it) but functionality is not. And when you design a UI with only one functionality in mind, it should NEVER be shoehorned into another like they did here.
Bottom line for me, there should have been a separate build of Win 8 for traditional control schemes, which very much still have a place in the modern world, functionality should not have been removed or hidden, and the fact that Microsoft doesn't understand these things severely undermines their credibility, past successes be damned.
Also, fun fact: The school laptop I'm writing this on was shipped with Windows 8 pre-installed. They had the good sense to install 7 overtop it.
Metro is much more functional with keyboard and mouse, where did you get the idea its much faster to use an screen that can accept only one command per cycle?
And why do you even need to see the rest of the screen to start up an program?
That is so minor compared to the rest that i simply can not understand. But every one has their preferance.
The thing i am trying to say is that its functionality is exactly the same as start that was present in all other windows versions. It is simply of new UI which is extremely easy to get used to and pleasant when you know what you want from your system, aka organized display of programs and functions.
In old start you had only a fixed amount of pinned buttons, program shortcuts, that you could have used. About 10 for my screen size. And the rest was navigated by going trough a large list of all kinds of shit with small text and unnecessary shortcuts in those folders. Where here you can easily see larger icons and grouped programs by simply moving your mouse:
Right clicking on the start menu icon you get access to all system settings and as well as shut down and other things such as instant shortcut to programs and features.
And even though i understand that is your opinion, i still feel i should say that the Desktop is exactly the same as in every windows version
I was troubleshooting a laptop at work not two weeks ago and explorer.exe would crash due to a corrupted CD when accessed. Using 'End Task' would put the laptop in a complete lock every time, requiring a full system reboot. By using the 'End Process' button, I forced explorer.exe to be stopped dead and was able to successfully save myself from yet another complete system restart by starting a new task and running explorer.exe.
Otherwise the rest of this conversation is meaningless to me because I'm using 7 and don't need to upgrade for any reason since I can keep using 7 for the next 2-6 years at least.
It will try to terminate and analyze the application on its own way. If that fails the user can always finalize the process by pressing end task in the pop up window - Application not responding.
"The good ol' "End Process" from the task manager can be accessed via the "Details" tab. That's basically the old task manager.".
/mod pls delete my accidental double post
"The good ol' "End Process" from the task manager can be accessed via the "Details" tab. That's basically the old task manager.".
And I can't tell you how many times 'End Task' has given me the pop-up and still does nothing when you confirm it. And isn't that what the 'End Task' has been doing since XP? I'm pretty sure 7 at the very least does the exact same thing as what you've just said, analyses a program and attempts to shut it down properly, not always easy when it's a system process in the first place.
So long as each version of the OS is (structurally) based on the last version, you'll still come across old problems, albeit rarely. It's like a globe, you patch the bugs and holes and then later you put a whole new skin over it, sometimes replacing large portions of the original, but inside there is still part of the original. Much in the way the Source Engine still has defunct Quake code still in there, but this all scales to complexity, an Engine is in no way as complex as an OS.
My simple answer to the whole 7/8 debate: 8 is fine, but so is 7. In general, people dislike change, but sometimes change changes something that didn't need to be changed.
To be honest, with more support for Linux these days, I'm more tempted to move that way next time I upgrade my system. Microsoft is just flogging a dead horse and Mac is no better, I'd like to see how the other side of the coin goes.
Sure you can switch to the standard desktop but... you know. I don't need to do that on Windows 7.
Also, in terms of user friendliness, the first review I saw called it the first user-hostile OS. Yeah, fuck Windows Hate.
And i am pretty sure no windows would react that way if it were functioning normally. Yours was probably corrupted heavily.
And there is an notable speed increase and responsiveness in Windows 8 compared to 7. And its known that at core windows 8 is a large improvement.
Urby, the only thing "Touch screen" is the start menu.
It has also managed to fuck up my Adobe Creative Suite which, as well as now performing about 5x slower, will not export. This is my JOB it has now fucked up.
This is as bad as Windows ME. Easily. Vista was better.
Of course, but like I said, so long is it is structurally based on the old code, the potential is still there.
"And I am pretty sure no windows would react that way if it were functioning normally."
Windows - Happily dysfunctional and periodically unstable since 1995.
That said, I've used 8 before and apart from the performance enhancements there's nothing I'd consider a serious enough layout/design improvement to warrant any sort of praise. Bigger doesn't mean better, and the amount of wasted space in some of these pics is hilarious.
And of course, Archie should have pirated his Adobe products.
.. like any other professional who makes a living off of using them every day would.
Man up, Archie.
I've been such a fool.
Now as you wrote your system is not responding as it should and you are having problems with it.
As for the jokes, i think they fit pretty well.
You, however, are such a self-righteous moron that I'm amazed you can even breathe from having your head so far up your ass.
10/10 Would do it again.
Stop thinking that i want to prove to you that i am in any way superior.
Just because i don't use swears doesn't mean i am underestimating you.
So, fuck you.
Just why would i compete with you in any way? Who the hell are you for me to even care about?
The way i write is the way i write, i know it sounds edgy most of the times, but i am not writing it to insult someone.
All i tried was to tell you that windows 8.1 is not as bad as you experienced it and that if given time and understanding it is an good operating system and replaces 7 well.
I rarely used the start anyway... I keep my shortcuts on the desktop, organized in folders like "multimedia", "mapping" etc. and other general programs directly on the desktop.
I currently use win 8.1 on my laptop and 7 on my desktop. I have nothing against the two. I think it's more a matter of taste.
And guys, cheer up; this is probably the one thing ever made in the 2010's other than CSGO that Stojke has ever liked enough to the point of arguing over it.
Tried it back in 2012 before it was final. Got use to it since much of the Metro crap was not implemented yet. Eventually, it got worse and worse which made me switch to Vista. Vista got old, and I went to Seven. Then tried out Linux for a while on my desktop, enjoyed it stuck and with it till my new laptop. My Laptop has nVidia Optimus which is a pain under Linux (it's getting better). I went back to Windows 8 for more support, then having to use 8 (and 8.1). Hated it as it got slower and had to force myself to use a terrible UI. I couldn't even install Windows 7 properly on my SSD because it was so bloated. This frustrated me so much I went back to Linux and haven't been on Windows since. Wine does pretty much what I need for modding and some gaming when there's no ports. I regret nothing.
How to reinstall Win7 legally without a disc. If your PC came with win7 pre-installed as mine did, this is the solution.
I'm waiting until after christmas...
1) Format Hard-Drive
2) Install whatever operating system you want
3) ????
4) Cookies
What an exceptional fuck up.
Edit:
Oh god, this is so much nicer. As a working environment it's just efficient, simple and extremely functional.
I don't have a solid colour fullscreen app start up every time I want to launch a program or check the clock.
Big image
Microsoft actually did a good job with 7, so i will have to nab an oem copy before the deadline, or, one could always warez it if one were forced to
Got me a Windows 7 disc though so I'm just going to hold onto that forever.
Otherwise I'll go Linux.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM......
I get what the intention was with Windows 8, but trying to make something that does absolutely everything for everyone means it'll do nothing for everyone. Or, it'll just do it in an entirely crap manner.
There's rumours cropping up that the next update to Windows 8 will return the Start menu properly: not the crappy regression they shoved into Windows 8.1. It'd also be nice if they actually went through and fixed up the desktop UI so that it's not a maddening blend of design concepts (ribbon, Metro, Vista-era iconography). Seriously, if Apple can (albeit slyly) remove the skeuomorphic rubbish from OS X, then surely Microsoft can get their act together as well.
Edit: Here's my other complaint as well, particularly to people who say "just get used to it!". The history of the PC, particularly from Microsoft's point of view, was allowing people to use the machine the way they wanted to use it. Add all that tablet rubbish if you want, but why should you completely remove the way it used to work? Why isn't their an official option to revert to a more traditional Windows experience? Why should I have to pay to have a third-party company's software on my machine to replicate a workflow that is still far quicker than what it's been replaced with? I've never had to do that with OS X, even when Apple rewrote the entire thing after OS 9!
People tend to whinge that Apple shoehorn their customers into doing things their way or not at all. Shouldn't Microsoft also be held accountable for doing the exact same thing, particularly when they've traditionally offered their customers choice?
On the topic of Windows 8, my Dad's new laptop came with it and it was a little frustrating to set up. On one hand, it has some cool new features and seems a bit faster. On the other hand, the interface is laughably poor. Some settings are in metro, some settings are in the desktop, and some settings overlap between the two which is just a nightmare. The concept of full-screen "apps" is ridiculous on a desktop(/laptop) computer with no touch screen and a proper hardware keyboard and mouse attached.
Many of MS's primary software products (Office, Visual Studio, even Windows Explorer) open straight into desktop mode, so it's pretty clear how much actual effort they put into making a good UI experience for their end users (hint: not much).
The full-screen thing is stupid. OS X as of late has the same thing too, but the crucial difference is that it's a toggle on any program that wants to support: it's not a mandatory obstruction. So if you want to run it as a full-screen app, you can. If you don't, then nothing changes. That's how it should be under Windows as well.
8's pretty fast and seems to boot up ridiculously quickly, doesn't bring up many errors and therefore a pretty good OS imo