disappearing brush entities Created 15 years ago2009-09-19 08:21:24 UTC by Trapt

been making a dm map which is largely based around one detailed area. i've recently been getting disappearing brush entities, running HL in openGL mode. move to another spot of the map and the brushes come back. i've tried running full vis also.

it's been a while since i've mapped in goldsource, any help would be appreciated. i'm hoping i don't have to remove any detail. >.> maybe i should be less overboard with my func_walling, i think source's func_detail has really altered my mapping methods.

edit: after checking r_speeds with developer on, i notice i'm getting a 'Too many entities in visible packet list' error. guess i was right about doing too much func_walling. guess i'll have to change some back to world brushes and put up with longer compile times.

here are some screenshots of what happens: brushes are missing, move a little to the right and brushes are back.

Are you running Vis? I had this error in a map I made, getting rid of ents such as func_breakables and monsters ingame fixed it, but VIS is the only permanent solution.

i've tried running full vis also.

edit: i've had some success combining my func_walls into larger func_walls with many brushes, along with converting some of them back to world brushes. i imagine this problem was caused by a whole lot of individual func_walls in conjuction with a load of env_glows i'm using. at least i didn't have to remove any detail like i feared.

Sorry, didn't see that. I guess you just have too many ents in the leaf. Try relocating some of the detail or making the area smaller

those lights definitly don't need to be func walled. I think you might be going a bit overboard.
Try turning everything back into world brushes, and just func wall the important stuff. (TINY details / handrails / cylinders)

yarr

If you're getting the "Too many entities in visible packet list" message in the console, then you have too many entities in one area.

Try turning everything back into world brushes, and just func wall the important stuff. (TINY details / handrails / cylinders)

Better yet: turn those into illusionaries. If you want people to stand on it, turn them into func_walls instead or just put a CLIP brush over them.

[quote]i've had some success combining my func_walls into larger func_walls with many brushes, along with converting some of them back to world brushes.[quote]

that's what i was going to recommend. Also, a single "leaf-saw" error will cause brushes to sporadically become invisible as well. So obviously, finding and eliminating these if you have any might fix the problem.

Also, I've found the latest SHLT tools to be especially good at zapping/fixing those nasty leaf-saw thingies... i don't think i've had one show up in my compile log since using the super half-life tools.

NICE to see you mapping Goldsource! =)

those lights definitly don't need to be func walled. I think you might be going a bit overboard.
Try turning everything back into world brushes, and just func wall the important stuff. (TINY details / handrails / cylinders)

lololol get a clue son. the truth of the matter is that EVERYTHING should be func_walled that is not part of the basic geometry of the map. leaving everything aside from tiny details, handrails and cylinders is just giving vis more to think about entirely unnecessarily.

also, they were cutting the wall below it and causing ugly lighting problems. another reason why really optimised func_walling is an advantage.

i forgive your ignorance though, because you are a nice guy and i feel sorry for you because you enjoy bad music.

Better yet: turn those into illusionaries. If you want people to stand on it, turn them into func_walls instead or just put a CLIP brush over them.

they actually were func_illusionaries, it's the same thing. the problem was that i had too many individual entities in the 'visible packet list.' by combining a whole load of seperate brushes into one entity i have pretty much fixed the problem entirely, as there are less entities on the screen at any one time even though the amount of brushes are the same.

that's what i was going to recommend. Also, a single "leaf-saw" error will cause brushes to sporadically become invisible as well. So obviously, finding and eliminating these if you have any might fix the problem.

Also, I've found the latest SHLT tools to be especially good at zapping/fixing those nasty leaf-saw thingies... i don't think i've had one show up in my compile log since using the super half-life tools.

NICE to see you mapping Goldsource! =)

not the problem i was having but thanks anyway.

lololol get a clue son. the truth of the matter is that EVERYTHING should be func_walled that is not part of the basic geometry of the map. leaving everything aside from tiny details, handrails and cylinders is just giving vis more to think about entirely unnecessarily.

Just don't go overboard with the func_walling. VIS will have a hard time optimizing the map properly if you func_wall larger structures like walls and stuff that otherwise would've functioned as VIS-blockers.

Also brush-entities doesn't cast shadows if I remember correctly, I think ZHLT supposedly included something like zhlt_customshadow but I, personally, never got it to work satisfactory.

Just don't go overboard with the func_walling. VIS will have a hard time optimizing the map properly if you func_wall larger structures like walls and stuff that otherwise would've functioned as VIS-blockers.

this is 100% true, which is why i was saying to leave the basic geometry. in my mind when you hide all the brush and point entities, all that should be left is very basic geometry used to block-vis and just enclose the map in general.

Also brush-entities doesn't cast shadows if I remember correctly, I think ZHLT supposedly included something like zhlt_customshadow but I, personally, never got it to work satisfactory.

really not a problem for the most part.

oh FFS trapt. Seriously.
There's such a thing as over-optimizing, and that's what you're doing.
So don't throw my help back at me because you asked for it in the first place.

Also brush-entities doesn't cast shadows if I remember correctly, I think ZHLT supposedly included something like zhlt_customshadow but I, personally, never got it to work satisfactory.

Entities should never be set to cast shadows in the first place, anyway. Not only to they cast improper shadows, but they screw with the entire light setup of the rest of the map.

Also, Tet, it would be better if he did func_wall those lights because texlights that run into another world brush like that have a tendancy to cause obvious face splitting. No need to do it for optimization, but he's right in saying that it will result in bad lighting.

True that would result in bad lighting, but it seems like he's func walling everything that doesnt seal the map from the void
IMO - overboard, and it could be resulting in the render issues.

just the sheer quantity of entities is what was causing the problem, it has since been fixed.

func_walling everything that doesn't seal the map from the void and isn't used to block visibility is a good idea because it significantly cuts down on your vis compile time.

truth is i figured out the problem about 30 seconds after posting the thread, the rest of this thread is just you guys arguing about my mapping methods when there is nothing wrong with them, in fact they're quite correct.

func_walling everything that doesn't seal the map from the void and isn't used to block visibility is a good idea because it significantly cuts down on your vis compile time.

Citing compile time as a reason for something like this in 2009 is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. Oh boy, another 30 seconds of your life wasted waiting to test play a map. Who's gonna miss it?

There's no right or wrong way to go about this, and god forbid some noobie come along and get the wrong ideas in threads like these. Yeah, obviously all your tiny details, cylinders touching walls, etc. should be func_walled, but beyond that it's really up to the mapper's judgment on a case-by-case basis. If you literally func_wall EVERYTHING except the base architecture, you're not going to run into any technical problems, but you are going to wind up with a really blandly lit map. Shadows are details too, and they add more atmosphere to Goldsrc maps than people give them credit for. Yeah, I'm talking about every little shadow here, because it all makes a difference.

I know Trapt's an extremely capable mapper, but goddamn some stuff like this makes me rage nonetheless.

i think you guys are getting the completely wrong idea of what i'm actually doing here, but hey let's all jump to conclusions. there is nothing wrong with my func_walling methods and they have not caused any shadowing issues. you guys are made from fail and aids, i know exactly what i'm doing. more so than most of you it would seem.