Buying a laptop... Created 12 years ago2012-06-13 20:20:52 UTC by Skals

Hi guys! I'm thinking of buying a laptop, well I will buy one, for when I move to uni, which is in about 2 months.

I was thinking something along the lines of sony... What do you guys think of this model?:
S 15 Series
Is that laptop worth the price? Perhaps some of you have a better suggestion than that model?

I want a laptop for gaming and game development, so programs such as photoshop, 3ds max etc. and the latest games.

Link no work
Whats the price range ?

Invalid link dude.

Um the link works for me, but ok, here's a link for it, before I went into the configuration step:
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/vn-s-series
VAIO S15 Series, configured with best processor, best grafix card and 8gb ram.

price range £800-£1000.

The laptop is amazing, but how much hidden flaws does it have (as we talked before).

Other than that, definite pro laptop.

laptop for gaming

That's going to end poorly.

If you're wanting to run modern or upcoming games then a laptop isn't going to cut it. It'll be out of date within the year and mobile graphics cards are usually total arse.

About 3 years ago I got my missus a "gaming" laptop which she could also use for Uni. In the end, she used it for Uni. It was just short of £7.99 and would just about run HL2. Oblivion and The Sims 2 caused it to overheat...

I told him the same thing, but he wants it to be as mobile as possible.

It was just short of £7.99

Where did you get that offer? Tell me!
I'm not very informed about laptops/notebooks, but from what I know Sony Vaio laptops are more about style( well, and performance too). My point is that I think for the same money you could get better performance for less outside quality in other laptop brands.

Laptop graphics aren't that bad, you just need to do some research regarding the mobile graphics chips, and choose according to your preferences. Take a look at the cards here:

http://notebookcheck.de (you can easily change the language to english in the upper right corner)

They have a pretty awesome benchmark-chart up there, and more in-depth specs for each chip.

Another important factor is the brand of the laptop, manufacturers like HP, Dell and Sony are pretty good, others tend to have some issues (my Toshiba's mobo died after three years, just outside of warranty time).

As Urby pointed out, overheating is a serious issue, but if your laptop's assembly doesn't suck, it's easy to keep it dust-clean with some compressed air.

And finally, check the interwebz for notorious errors regarding the models you've chosen, even the best manufacturers have product lines, which suck. If you're lucky, you can get quite a few years out of your laptop...but yeah, they have more problems, than desktops.

Originally posted by Urby the complete dickhead
It was just short of £7.99 and would just about run HL2.

Gonna go with "oops" there. £799*

my laptop is 4+ years old and it plays everything on low-medium settings, and even high settings of some games, yet then my temps go way up.

So given that, i'm just guessing a "decent" i7 laptop machine with a decent video card will play almost anything for a couple years to come, on good-to-awesome settings.

Make sure you keep your fans clean buy airdustering the exhaust/intakes, (while your computer is running) every month or so, and you shouldn't have any temp problems on most games. (you can buy a cooling pad if you really needed one)

my friend mark just bought a beast laptop a few months ago off tiger direct and caught a deal, payin only like $799-$899, top specs on pretty much everhthing at the time. He plays bf3/d3/SWTOR all on high settings, with no performance or heating issues afaik.

Taylor thanks for the link!

Ok, what do you guys think about this notebook:

MSI GT683
http://www.msi.com/product/nb/GT683.html#/?div=Specification

Seems to have a load of good reviews, plus the price is more reasonable, the notebook appears to be better than the Sony I showed before.

looks great!

nicely styled and specs are great, what was your price? Love the chiclet keyboard too, i can't wait to upgrade soon myself

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-Computer-Series-GT683DX-840US-15-6-Inch/dp/tech-data/B0072BA3AW/ref=de_a_smtd

That same model but with slightly better specs, 1,388 dollars on amazon, thats 894 british pounds.

MSI = No
Never.

shop around is all i can say. You shop around enough you'll know which one is the best.

Only thing is who knows the deals that will come up in the next 2 months, which you always have to deal with when buying a new anything electronic nowadays.

When i'm ready to upgrade i'm going to newegg or tigerdirect most-likely.

The specs on that MSI are pretty awesome tbh, but check for common errors regarding that model. Those lower-end Chinese manufacturers are pretty accurate, when it comes to just-out-of-warranty-fuckups. If it's a relatively new model with no long-term experiences, well...better go with a more safer and similar Dell, HP, Sony or IBM.

I'd personally go IBM outta those 4 choices

IBM does have the most quality, but for the budget he can get a much stronger configuration out of Sony.

GeForce GTX 560... Isn't that a low end budget card?
Not something you'd want in a machine you can't upgrade.

As for Dell or Acer... Yeah right.

GeForce GTX 560... Isn't that a low end budget card?

No, gtfo.

Was thinking of the GTX 460, my bad.
Even then, the GTX 690 seems to be a lot faster then the 560, so why you would go for an outdated card [Performance reduced more by being a mobile edition] that you can't upgrade is beyond me.

A 560 is definitely not an outdated card. Just because it's not the newest model on the market, or second from newest, does not mean it is outdated by any means. Also you all seem to be comparing the desktop cards, the GTX, and not the laptop cards, the GTX M.

I don't think they can be weighed against each other fairly.

Well, perhaps outdated is the wrong term, but rather not the highest performing.
My point is, is if you're going to go with a system that does not let you upgrade individual parts, picking anything short of the best will end poorly.
The GTX 560 may do great in video games now, but give it a couple years and maybe you'll be wishing you went with a GTX 690 instead, which could potentially outlast it.
Entire high performing laptop systems are not cheap and easy to replace often... Individual graphics cards are.

Of course, all this is probably meaningless as, I am of course comparing desktop GPUs. And given the drive of technology, laptop prices could probably drop dramatically, negating the price point.

Laptops with high-end mobile chips for 1000-1300 bucks? Yeah, no. For Skals' price range, a GTX 560 M is perfectly ok. Heck, it can be even considered as a higher-end chip in laptops. Besides, I think it's just dumb to invest in one of the most expensive laptops, because they're much more vulnerable to outside forces, overheating, etc. Except if you're darn rich, and a few thousand dollars doesn't set you back, it's just not worth it.

On a side note, mid-range cards aren't that crap, as they used to be, say, 5-10 years ago. A GTX 560 will run pretty much every recent game on high settings. If you absolutely NEED that 60-100 fps with 8x AA in highest resolution, then yeah, go with a high-end card. Other than such extreme cases, mid-range cards are the way to go.

I know what it can run. Skyrim ultra; 21 fps, Metro 2033 High: 28-35 fps, ultra: 10-14 fps. Diablo 3 ultra: 44 fps.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-560M.48313.0.html It's all here. Why are you guys arguing about this again?

Discussion =/= argument.

Just trying to help out bro, I'll leave.

No offence intended. I made this thread for help on finding a good laptop, not for finding a good video card. Some of the guys here helped me out quite a bit, and I appreciate that, thanks!

If you're wanting to run modern or upcoming games then a laptop isn't going to cut it. It'll be out of date within the year and mobile graphics cards are usually total arse.

The mobile graphics aren't really as bad as Urby says, but he's right. If Desktop graphics cards get outdated as quickly as they do, what makes you think your laptop is going to last even a year to a couple years, pulling 20 fps in a modern game?

Make matters worse, the GTX 560m is a high end graphics cards... In the mobile lineup. So yeah, you're not going to get anything better than the 560m apparently, and that card struggles to run modern games. So really, there's your laptop of choice.

What kind of games are you talking about here? Crysis 3 on super ultra mode?

Well, yes. It has difficulty running modern games [Diablo 3 seems alright though] so upcoming games will most certainly rape it. You can turn the settings down but really that's only going to get you so far.

I'm not saying laptops are useless, laptops are great for development and editing, they're really only lacking in the GFX department. If you can't bring a desktop of some sort that you can put some nice hardware in, then a laptop will not cut it for any decent gaming performance. [Depending on your definition of 'decent'. I don't consider turning everything down to low 'decent', but you might not care for that.]

Really, that laptop is fine for whatever purposes other then gpu extensive tasks.
I'm not trying to make you not get it, you should, you just shouldn't get it for gaming.

Ugh this is a hard decision indeed. I think I might buy a new desktop instead, I came to this realization that I don't need a laptop that badly, after seeing the prices and comparisons with desktops. The idea of a laptop seemed good at first, but I wanted one for gaming and work during uni, and I'm pretty much going to live in the campus, not traveling anywhere, I'll be near my house at all times, Anytime I want to play games I guess I can just pop back into my room. Yeah I guess after thinking about it, a desktop could be better instead.

Plus another reason I made this decision, is because desktops can be customized, so a powerful machine that I create now, will last me at least 5 years. Goodie!

Thanks for the help guys! It really did help quite a bit.

Smart, smart, smart decision. Who needs laptops when cellphones are entire computers anyways! Build a rig!

Well, I'm pretty sure he already has a pretty good rig built up now... But building a rig now is so goddamn cheap I feel robbed considering what my money a couple years ago would get me now.

The Nvidia GTX 460 is an entry level card, but it's so cheap it's almost disposable, you could buy two of them and throw them in SLI and they'll seemingly run just about anything.
However, for whatever reason performance with this card is rather polarized, some 460s can barely run cod4, others can max anything and everything in sight.
Be aware of this, and don't fall for the memory trap [3GB DDR3 vs 1GB DDR5], etc.
If not a 460 you could even get a GTX 295 that will run just about anything, and then a couple years down the line it's only going to cost you what, $100-150 to upgrade?

Ram is also extremely cheap, I believe I saw 8GB DDR3 go for something like $40 once... Damn. Everything is so cheap nowadays.

8GB DDR3 1333MHz = 25$
2GB DDR3 1333MHz = 10$

Ram is extremely cheap.
I payed 60e for 2x 1GB 1600MHz Gail Black Dragon modules 2 years ago.
For 400e he can get 2x High end GPU in SLI mode, and im tlaking about GT570.

The most important part is that he does not buy a cheap ass crappy MoBo. Mother boards are a bit expensive, 200e, but for the budget he wants to spend, he will be able to build an i7 kick ass rig.

[Edit]

Also Crollo, shit is not cheap, only RAM is cheap, and CPUs dropped a bit, everything else is over priced. Not to talk about HDDs. They were 3x cheaper this time last year.

So I'm going to make a sexy custom built desktop.

The processor I am thinking of going for is - i7 3770 (quad core).
On this benchmark website
It is really high on the chart, but it only costs about £250. Good value for money.

The GPU I am not sure about, I was thinking of gtx 560, because It is quite high on the chart, yet only £130 (Great value for money) Plus this rig will last me 5 years + so I can replace this card at any given time.

(here are some benchmarks)

I have not a clue regarding motherboards, is there some kind of benchmark website for them? and are all latest motherboard compatible with any latest gpu/processor combination or can there be a problem there?

I already have a Corsair HX 750W Silver grade PSU. Question is, will it be able to run the specs I displayed?

I have a soundcard from my old pc.
About the hdd, can someone explain to me the importance of a good hdd in a powerful system? Are those brandnew fancy expensive drives worth it?

Finally the ram, What is the difference between 1333mHz, 1600, 1866, 2133? I mean, obviously the higher the mHz the better the chip, but is it worth spending extra money on lets say 8GB of 2133mHz ram when 8GB of 1333mhz is much cheaper?
Also, how much ram should my pc have? Is something like 16gb in 4x chips enough?

Also Crollo, shit is not cheap

Really? Because I paid around $300 for a system that had diffculty maxing modern games when I got it 3-4 years ago, and $300 nowadays could at least get you a high end graphics card that will max everything, a good mobo, HDDs and memory.
Maybe you're shelling out quite the bit if you absolutely need a core I7 or something like that, but even decent dual core processors are what, $20 on the used market. Though, the $20 dual core I saw was for a outdated socket I believe, but even then that's pretty fucking cheap I'd say.

I personally don't think there's anything to motherboards short of searching up the specific board\understanding the manufacturer so you can know before you buy it if it's going to have problems, and just in general looking at the specs. What do you need out of your motherboard, what type of memory do you want to put in it, what cpu socket do you need, etcetera.

In the long run you'll probably want to go for the higher clocked ram, but really for editing and gaming, I'm running off of 400mhz ram and it's fast enough. It's up to you to decide if you really need that extra speed, which probably won't be useful until much later on.
As for the amount of memory, 4GB is enough for most gaming purposes, and for editing purposes 8GB is also adequate. Anything beyond that is entirely your choice of future proofing your system.

Personally, if I could afford it, I'd go for the highest clocks and memory amounts.
Better to future proof it now, especially if you can afford to do so.

Here's a question, if the processor comes with an intel integrated graphics card, will that graphics card work together with my high-end gpu to improve performance further, or will it just idle around while my graphics card does all the work? ...and so is it a bad idea to buy a good processor that also has an integrated card? Would it be better to buy a processor without an integrated card since I'm buying a high end gpu?

I don't think the processor itself would come with integrated graphics, you're probably thinking of the mobo.
The sole purpose of integrated graphics adapters is a fallback for if\when you don't have a graphics card installed. If you install a graphics card it will literally cease to function and the graphics card will take priority. It really makes no negative or positive difference if you have integrated graphics or not.

Sandy and Ivy Bridge Intel CPU's have a graphics chip built in, but as far as I'm aware, it's not used if you have a dedicated GPU. I could be wrong, though. I would ignore the fact though, and just go with whatever model gives you the best value for money.

Well there are two processors I am switching back and forth between:

i7 3770 - Integrated graphics card, very high on benchmark list
and
i7 3820 - Slightly higher specs BUT LOWER ON BENCHMARK LIST. £20 cheaper.

A sabertooth motherboard for the 3770 will be £40 cheaper than the one for 3820. What do you guys think? Benchmark shows that 3770 is about 10% faster than 3820, even though 3820 has higher specs, how can this be?

Processor? Go for the i7 3820, the benchmark is probably not purely for the CPU but also for the integrated GPU.

Graphics card? Go for the Nvidia GTX560 or Amd Radeon HD6850.

Motherboard? Get the one that is socket-compatible with the processor you want to buy, be sure it has USB 3.0(much, much faster), and don't throw more than around 100-120 euros on it. More expensive motherboards are really just for enthusiasts.

HDD? If you want performance make sure you don't buy those marketed as "green". Those have lower specs and are generally intended to office/multimedia environments and not towards the gaming/editing/enthusiast market. You might want to couple that HDD with an SSD- it's essential if you want a super-fast operating system. Be careful though, SSD is a whole new domain of researching, and you will be surprised as to how expensive some of these drives are.

You might also want a floppy-disk drive.

Coolio striker, I was wondering, Can I get like a cheap small SSD 40-60GB to hold all the system files (So system runs fast), and also install a 500GB Western Digital HDD to hold all my other files? Would that work?

These are the specs I've decided on:

PSU: Intel core i5-3570k processor (same performance as 3770k gaming wise but £100 cheaper)
GPU: Geforce GTX 560 Ti video card (Found one cheap at same price as 560 Asus make)
PSU: Corsair HX 750W (Silver) (Already have one)
Motherboard: Asus Sabertooth Z77 (Usb 3.0, great motherboard)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Genesis DDR3-1600Mhz 2x4GB (Best quality + best value 4 money)
PC Case: NZXT Phantom 410 Midi Tower (Amazing case fitting my system, with fans and fan control)

I estimate I'll end up spending no more than £700 on this amazing system

Heh, I knew I forgot something! Memory. 8 GB is pretty much a standard(I guess) nowadays IF you're a power user. 16 GB is currently too much, you won't ever use so much memory. I see you've already decided on a dual-channel kit, so that's ok. Also, besides memories being faster with increasing frequencies, they also get faster with lower latency times. These are usually finer details that are harder to spot.

As for the SSDs, I know I read a lot about them in the past in a couple of articles, but I really forgot most of it. I know there are MLC and SLC drives, although SLC drives are almost, if not entirely, exclusive for the enterprise segment( it's something to do with storing more information on the same number of transistors, to make things cheaper- but this increases firmware complexity to keep the error rates at a low level, SLC drives don't do that).

You can start by a reference point. For example, take OCZ Vertex 3 Series( 90GB) and start looking from there. If you decided you'll invest so much money in that motherboard( I really think you're overestimating the motherboard's role), I guess you could simply buy this drive too.
I think somebody else should give you better examples here, I'm not well informed.

Crollo, thats like comparing a Renault to a Mercedes.
Sure, they can bot go up to 100km/h in 4 seconds, but one has much more quality and will definetly last longer, and the other doesnt.

For 300$ you can hardly buy a HiEnd GPU not alone all components.
He doesnt need an i7, but if he can aford it, why not. On the used markets, slower models are always cheaper, always has been like that, there are good cpus for little cash. You will always find that the best costs the most. Even when the difference is a mere 200MHz, the price can be 2x bigger.
You are right if you think of it that way, the performance is similar.

Chosing the right motherboard is the most important step of the process, by my point of view.
Not only does it need to have quality support for the CPU, Memory, GPU, but also it needs to be built with quality and last. Mother boards unter 150$ wil RARELY have 2x 16xPCI-E, and or other functions, such as memory speed and ammount support
As well as in other connectivity support and features.
If he is planning on buying a high end CPU, he needs a high end MoBo. The one with quality capacitors and voltage regulation, as well as support for the newest hot shit.

As i wrote up, you need many things out of a MoBo, out of which the most important is quality voltage in the system and regulation. You want it to last, not die as soon as the warrenty runs out, lol.

RAM speed is the speed at which the data is transfered into and out of it. The faster RAM is, the better the system performance. Even 100 MHz is a whole different level of performance.
I also think he should get 4GB and upgrade latter as needed. 8GB wont give him much improvement for now.

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Skals, integrated GPU does not aid/improve the real thing.
Plus, its dissabled when you insert the real deal.
And also, it uses up your system ram, so you dont want it.

---

I personally would not chose an ATI, due to bad experience with it. But Nvidia is more expencive for what ATI can give you, so you will need to chose.
In my experience the best Nvidia brand is Gainward.

HDD, as striker says, but why waste 100e more on an SSD when you can get a VelociRaptor from WD which has similar transfer speed and more space than an SSD for that price.
As for other parts, Blue is good. As he said, green is too slow.

As for CPU, id personally go for a non GPU one, socket 2011 is the one with out.
Its pure Intel power.

Does anyone know Skals question about SSDs and system speed? Would startup be faster? Navigating through your system?

Bump for Skals' question.

SSD operate at holy shit higher speeds than a classic magnet disc HDD.

You will have faster file loading from storage into memory into cpu, and with that much faster operation of your computer.

Cool, I wonder if it's worth putting one on this shit-bad MOBO. Maybe I'll just get a real cheap one to see what happens.

Mother boards unter 150$ wil RARELY have 2x 16xPCI-E, and or other functions, such as memory speed and ammount support

Why did you assume Skals needs 2 PCI-e ports? I have a Gigabyte S3 motherboard since 2007, it was kind of mid-level. In 2010 I upgraded the CPU, updated the BIOS and it worked. No "solid-state" capacitors. None of them exploded/leaked. I assume most of the newer motherboards have better quality capacitors anyway. I'm saying that it's not a good idea to just throw money on a high-end motherboard.

Even 100 MHz is a whole different level of performance.

I want that proved.

There's no Ati anymore, it's AMD. Why are people assuming that AMD video cards are lower quality just because they had driver problems with Hammer in the past?

HDD, as striker says, but why waste 100e more on an SSD when you can get a VelociRaptor from WD which has similar transfer speed and more space than an SSD for that price.

I can't fully understand your logic. So you're assuming that investing in a more expensive motherboard is good, but investing in an SSD is bad?

As for CPU, id personally go for a non GPU one, socket 2011 is the one with out.
Its pure Intel power.

I agree with this.