Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build
Created 10 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by
Penguinboy
Created 10 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by
Penguinboy
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-23 02:38:52 UTC
Post #318078
Hello everyone! Here's what I've been working on implementing:Coming soon, hopefully!
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-23 03:16:29 UTC
Post #318079
That makes me happy.
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-23 05:59:44 UTC
Post #318081
Nice! I never get those to display nicely in-game.
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-23 16:01:29 UTC
Post #318091
I've already done a thing like this on Hammer few months ago:
Nice one though, Mozartkugeln. :3
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-23 16:16:47 UTC
Post #318092
Thanks. Currently it supports curved arches of any shape and size. It also has tilting both inwards and outwards, its primary use being to allow for the easy creation of banking roads and tracks and such. The tilting also features interpolation, which gradually increases the tilt angle towards the center of the arch, thus making the ends lay flat with any road segments attached to it. It decides how best to split the brushes depending on which way the arch is curving.
I'm hoping to expand the feature to tori as well. That would make creating things like spirally tubes and tunnels really easy (think water park rides). Polygon counts are an issue, though, as every solid in the torus would most likely have to be split into two.
If you have any suggestions, do let me know.
Edit:
@Alberto: Likewise — that's what inspired me to create the tool. I wanted to streamline the process and integrate it into an editor so that mappers could make shapes like that with only a few clicks.
I'm hoping to expand the feature to tori as well. That would make creating things like spirally tubes and tunnels really easy (think water park rides). Polygon counts are an issue, though, as every solid in the torus would most likely have to be split into two.
If you have any suggestions, do let me know.
Edit:
@Alberto: Likewise — that's what inspired me to create the tool. I wanted to streamline the process and integrate it into an editor so that mappers could make shapes like that with only a few clicks.
![COOBORKY?[kzna]](https://twhl.info/uploads/avatars/small/5656.jpg)
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-25 15:52:51 UTC
Post #318118
I was just trying to add an ambient generic into my map and there is no way to browse to get to my sounds, the "path/filename.wav of WAV" just has "key" and "value" next to it with no little "..." button like in hammer to browse your computer. im sure putting the shortened path in the box will work but having the browse button is, naturally, a lot more user friendly.
![COOBORKY?[kzna]](https://twhl.info/uploads/avatars/full/5656.jpg)
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-25 17:21:40 UTC
Post #318119
@Alberto: Likewise — that's what inspired me to create the tool...It's a very good idea, and could be a very useful tool for less experienced mappers.
coff An opinion by PB is appreciated coff
I was just trying to add an ambient generic into my map...You mean that you have to copy and paste the WAV path manually? If so, this isn't a big deal imho. But yeah, it could be more user friendly, of course.
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-25 20:41:37 UTC
Post #318125
coff An opinion by PB is appreciated coffI've been coordinating with PB to create it. Seems he's been busy in the past few days, though.
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-26 11:00:41 UTC
Post #318127
Yeah, I've been taking a bit of a break so I don't burn myself out. I'll make sure the ramp tool improvements make it into the next version, though!
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-26 11:43:14 UTC
Post #318128
That's great to hear indeed.
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-27 09:26:50 UTC
Post #318130
Been using Sledge to recycle some of my brushwork from unfinished Source maps for The Core, specifically de_desertion.
Total poker face at how messy some of this brushwork is
Total poker face at how messy some of this brushwork is
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-27 13:58:19 UTC
Post #318134
Neat, though that screenshot looks like it's mostly displacements and models, so I don't know how much you would gain from converting it to Goldsource 
Here's what I've been playing with recently in Sledge - 3D manipulation tools:
Here's what I've been playing with recently in Sledge - 3D manipulation tools:
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-27 14:02:54 UTC
Post #318135
F'kn Awesome!
If you can make the gizmo snap to a vertex or edge, you got yourself a dedicated Sledge user.
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-27 14:58:26 UTC
Post #318136
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-27 16:28:15 UTC
Post #318137
If you can make the gizmo snap to a vertex or edge, you got yourself a dedicated Sledge user.YES!!!
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-27 21:07:44 UTC
Post #318140
That has so much potential to go wrong...
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-28 03:55:55 UTC
Post #318142
The gizmo or the thumbs up?
Because if you are talking about the 3D manipulation tools, please, allow me to impress upon you the severe mistake you have made. For years my conduct has been largely benign. And yet, without provocation, you have severed our détente and forced me to unleash upon you the vengeful flames of a thousand suns. You shall curse your mothers for the day of your birth. So, go now, go, and begin your life of fear, knowing that when you least expect it, the looming sword of Damocles will crash down upon you, cleaving you in twain and as you gaze upon the smoking wreckage that was once your life, you will regret the day you crossed the WRONG FISH!!
Because if you are talking about the 3D manipulation tools, please, allow me to impress upon you the severe mistake you have made. For years my conduct has been largely benign. And yet, without provocation, you have severed our détente and forced me to unleash upon you the vengeful flames of a thousand suns. You shall curse your mothers for the day of your birth. So, go now, go, and begin your life of fear, knowing that when you least expect it, the looming sword of Damocles will crash down upon you, cleaving you in twain and as you gaze upon the smoking wreckage that was once your life, you will regret the day you crossed the WRONG FISH!!
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-28 04:09:09 UTC
Post #318143
yeah.
swords and fish.
the word is the rook.
can i get an Amen
swords and fish.
the word is the rook.
can i get an Amen
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-28 14:17:49 UTC
Post #318148
Can has rotation about an arbitrary point?
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-28 15:30:24 UTC
Post #318149
Yeah that'd be legit - holding ALT will enable Gizmo translation.
It'd also be sweet if you could localize translations too...
I have to imagine that'd be crazy difficult. Just pipe dreaming at this point. =]
It'd also be sweet if you could localize translations too...
I have to imagine that'd be crazy difficult. Just pipe dreaming at this point. =]
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-28 16:33:11 UTC
Post #318150
So many requests. I wonder what will actually be done.
Also, that's how you know you have something really good on your hands.
Also, that's how you know you have something really good on your hands.
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-28 22:42:20 UTC
Post #318151
Great job PB, keep it up. Not to sound like an idiot, but i don't see 3D manipulation tools really useful they are a nice addition no doubt, but i just don't see it, either that or im old.
Posted 10 years ago2014-02-28 22:57:30 UTC
Post #318152
It's all about providing different options - you might not use it but other people will. It's like how there are several different ways to move the camera around, everyone uses a method that works for their editing style, so providing more options makes everyone more efficient.
@Tet: what do you mean by "localised translations"?
Arbitrary rotation points are definitely going to be added.
@Tet: what do you mean by "localised translations"?
Arbitrary rotation points are definitely going to be added.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-01 00:42:04 UTC
Post #318153
Say you rotate a brush by 45 degrees.
that brush's axis has just moved.
So instead of translating(moving/rotating) the brush in 'Global' XYZ coordinates, what if you could rotate or move the brush along its own axis.
that brush's axis has just moved.
So instead of translating(moving/rotating) the brush in 'Global' XYZ coordinates, what if you could rotate or move the brush along its own axis.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-01 01:06:07 UTC
Post #318154
No, no, it's about Sledge in French, German, Spanish, Swedish, etc. RIGHT?
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-11 09:28:48 UTC
Post #318208
How about adding a toggleable option that reads the "cl_skyname" field on Map properties that replaces the default 3D view background with the chosen skybox?
Or something similar anyway.
Or something similar anyway.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-11 11:19:38 UTC
Post #318209
If not something less complicated and just the ability to load a skybox. A dynamic option is always welcome though.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-11 12:10:56 UTC
Post #318210
Yeah, that's why I've said this.
Long story short: have the chance to see the skybox in the 3D view, no matter how.
Long story short: have the chance to see the skybox in the 3D view, no matter how.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-11 14:17:12 UTC
Post #318211
I initially thought that was a really cool idea, but surely it'd get confusing if the void takes on the appearance of a non-existent skybox?
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-11 18:12:57 UTC
Post #318212
Without any sort of previewing, a skybox would be cosmetic and nearly pointless unless you just want to load up your sky just to get in the mood for mapping.
Feck i dunno.
EDIT: Wait aren't there some model viewers that can load skyboxes? isn't that even more pointless but yet somehow exists for some reason...
Feck i dunno.
EDIT: Wait aren't there some model viewers that can load skyboxes? isn't that even more pointless but yet somehow exists for some reason...
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-11 22:11:56 UTC
Post #318213
If anything, basic skybox rendering makes sense IN A LEVEL EDITOR.
I suppose it would be useful to tell if you've made a typo or something (if you typed the filename wrong, it wouldn't render and maybe even give you a message that the selected skybox doesn't exist).
I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Still, if it were to be implemented, I'd suggest that there be a setting to turn it off in case it's too distracting or slows down your system too much.
I suppose it would be useful to tell if you've made a typo or something (if you typed the filename wrong, it wouldn't render and maybe even give you a message that the selected skybox doesn't exist).
I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Still, if it were to be implemented, I'd suggest that there be a setting to turn it off in case it's too distracting or slows down your system too much.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 01:56:50 UTC
Post #318214
You could just use a big-hollow cube with the sky materials applied, the obvious problem tho being the very limited back-clipping distance..
I think it would be pretty damn cool if you could make this work properly for Sledge =P
Edit
This actually looks ok stock in the source sdk, except materials are rendered really weird in the foreground, because the vmt properties are set to sky:
I think it would be pretty damn cool if you could make this work properly for Sledge =P
Edit
This actually looks ok stock in the source sdk, except materials are rendered really weird in the foreground, because the vmt properties are set to sky:
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 05:01:53 UTC
Post #318215
Does Hammer for Source do this, or did you make that one yourself?
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 11:03:57 UTC
Post #318216
That's Hammer 4, Stu. (Source)
The 6 skybox textures are available from the textures browser.
He just hollowed out a giant cube and slapped the textures on them.
The 6 skybox textures are available from the textures browser.
He just hollowed out a giant cube and slapped the textures on them.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 11:49:45 UTC
Post #318217
I agree with stu on this one.
basic skybox rendering makes sense IN A LEVEL EDITOR.It sorta makes Hammer look like the UDK stuff. I think its good to also look impressive since it could be amongst the first of the new features people will notice. Say Yay for now and let's move on to something else if anyone has any ideas.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 12:00:19 UTC
Post #318218
I've never done much with skyboxes and I'll have to rig up some code to load the textures in (as they're not WAD textures in GS), but I'll mess around with the skybox stuff and see what I can do. It'll definitely be a toggle, because honestly I think the skybox would get in the way most of the time.
Just to clarify, the skybox will render instead of the void, but sky brushes will still appear like normal? Seems a bit useless, but hey, I'll see if I can do it and you guys can try it and let me know what you think.
Just to clarify, the skybox will render instead of the void, but sky brushes will still appear like normal? Seems a bit useless, but hey, I'll see if I can do it and you guys can try it and let me know what you think.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 12:54:43 UTC
Post #318219
Just to clarify, the skybox will render instead of the void, but sky brushes will still appear like normal?Well, we can still use VisGroups for this (hide the sky brushes). The purpose to have the skybox rendered In-Editor is just to have a skybox preview before compiling the BSP.
Anyways, another idea: If you can do this skybox thing, why not even add an option that loads TGAs detailed textures In-Editor? This is more useful than the skybox render imho. And it should read the "mapname_detail.txt" file for the textures' names and textures' size. I don't know if this is possible though.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 13:21:49 UTC
Post #318220
It'd be nice to be able to setup the sun-lighting without having to guess a bunch of times and hope it matches the sun in the sky box.
Detail textures? That's outside my knowledge. I'm obsolete now.
Detail textures? That's outside my knowledge. I'm obsolete now.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 13:36:58 UTC
Post #318221
It'd be nice to be able to setup the sun-lighting without having to guess a bunch of times and hope it matches the sun in the sky box.Completely agree.
Detail textures? That's outside my knowledge. I'm obsolete now.Really? It's nothing to be scared of. Just a bunch of 128x128 (or else) greyscale TGAs inside the "gfx/detail" folder that acts as an additional overlayed texture over the main one. You can set it on a custom txt file inside the "maps" folder, it must to have the same map's name with "_detail" added. And this is how you structure that file:
Texturename detail/detailtexturename 5.0 5.0
The numbers at the end are the X and Y texture size, the bigger the numbers, the smallest (detailed) the detail textures. You can view detailed textures in game with the "r_detailedtextures 1" command.
Ok so, now that this is "inside your knowledge", let's see your thoughts.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 16:02:02 UTC
Post #318226
I guess being able to see the textures in there full glory is a plus. Especially if adjustments need to be made to the scaling or some other adjustment.
Speaking of setting up lighting...
For lighting entities, could some wire helpers be visible to help illustrate how powerful or how far the light will go? Especially with spot lights and environment lights if you could aim them. Similar to your transform gizmo on the previous page but made for lights. If I recall, I think Hammer 4 has a "point at" button. Would be a nice feature all around for GS too if the gizmo is too much.
Speaking of setting up lighting...
For lighting entities, could some wire helpers be visible to help illustrate how powerful or how far the light will go? Especially with spot lights and environment lights if you could aim them. Similar to your transform gizmo on the previous page but made for lights. If I recall, I think Hammer 4 has a "point at" button. Would be a nice feature all around for GS too if the gizmo is too much.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 23:49:05 UTC
Post #318228
Just to clarify, the skybox will render instead of the void, but sky brushes will still appear like normal? Seems a bit useless, but hey, I'll see if I can do it and you guys can try it and let me know what you think.Rendering the skybox on the void alone is pretty useless. I was actually thinking that the void would remain the void and the sky brushes (the "sky" texture being some sort of special case for the renderer) would be entirely skipped and replaced by the actual skybox. Maybe with their visible edges in wireframe or something.
This way you'd see the skybox where it would appear in game, and it wouldn't get mixed up with the void. The void should remain visible as such, or it would be extremely easy to leave gaping holes in the level of which you wouldn't even remember until you compiled the map. Leaks would be a lot harder to find if both sky brushes AND void looked like the skybox.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-12 23:59:51 UTC
Post #318230
Or the SKY texture could be transparent or mostly invisible so you can see through it too the void-skybox. There's also, as mentioned previously, vis group out the sky brushes temporarily when working.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-13 00:14:09 UTC
Post #318232
But the problem with that is that it would be very easy not to see a massive leak. Besides, wouldn't it be silly to render the skybox on the void instead of on the sky brushes? That's the exact purpose of the sky brushes :/
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-13 01:17:50 UTC
Post #318233
I see no reason to do anything with the sky brushes, but that's just my thought. (all your skybrushes should be visgrouped anyway keeping things neat OR you could just use auto-visgrouping to quickhide them)
The whole point of this--or so i thought--, was to be able to view the skybox pre-compile, while you are mapping. Anyone who doesn't get how this would be helpful, or thinks it would "get in the way", i just don't understand..
Rendering the skybox as the void would have NOTHING to do with leaks or sealing the level, or at least it shouldn't! If this is implemented, I do agree it should be toggleable.
The whole point of this--or so i thought--, was to be able to view the skybox pre-compile, while you are mapping. Anyone who doesn't get how this would be helpful, or thinks it would "get in the way", i just don't understand..
Rendering the skybox as the void would have NOTHING to do with leaks or sealing the level, or at least it shouldn't! If this is implemented, I do agree it should be toggleable.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-13 02:05:20 UTC
Post #318234
I just meant that if the void AND the sky brushes are replaced with skybox, you can't visually tell the difference between them and holes are the most likely result. Knowing this it would probably be best to render the skybox over either the void or the sky brushes, but not both.
Rendering the skybox where the void shows is possibly the easiest option, however rendering the skybox where the sky texture shows looks like a more rational option to me. It would show skybox where it's supposed to be (after all, that's the purpose of the sky brushes), and unless the skybox was black, the void would show as black spots and it would be easy to tell at a quick glance where or if there are any holes.
Rendering the skybox where the void shows is possibly the easiest option, however rendering the skybox where the sky texture shows looks like a more rational option to me. It would show skybox where it's supposed to be (after all, that's the purpose of the sky brushes), and unless the skybox was black, the void would show as black spots and it would be easy to tell at a quick glance where or if there are any holes.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-13 02:10:47 UTC
Post #318235
Of course, none of this has any affect on the compiled map. It's only how its represented in the editor.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-13 02:25:31 UTC
Post #318236
OK, i've finally caught up and see what you mean. Essentially, you want Sledge to make visibility calculations in real-time, correct?
If PB can make it happen, that would be sweet, though i feel like you are really asking for a lot here
If PB can make it happen, that would be sweet, though i feel like you are really asking for a lot here
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-13 04:08:59 UTC
Post #318237
Not going to happen. It's void replacement or nothing. Considering it'd be a toggle option, I don't see how "it's harder to find leaks" is a valid argument, unless you set your void colour to the same as the sky texture, but that's somewhat silly.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-13 04:19:28 UTC
Post #318238
I might have worded it wrong. It would be harder to find leaks if both the void AND the sky brushes were replaced by skybox (or, well, set to the same colour). I just meant they should be different for this confusion not to happen.
[edit]wait, that's exactly what I said. I'm confused now.
[edit]wait, that's exactly what I said. I'm confused now.
Posted 10 years ago2014-03-13 05:25:49 UTC
Post #318239
I see, I somehow missed your first paragraph
Regardless, it's much too difficult to draw a "correct-looking" skybox on the sky brushes, because as CapT says, it involves real-time visibility calculations, which is somewhat out of scope. It seems more sensible to offer the void-replacing method as a toggle (maybe it can hide the sky brush group at the same time?) and let the user turn it on and off whenever they want.
Regardless, it's much too difficult to draw a "correct-looking" skybox on the sky brushes, because as CapT says, it involves real-time visibility calculations, which is somewhat out of scope. It seems more sensible to offer the void-replacing method as a toggle (maybe it can hide the sky brush group at the same time?) and let the user turn it on and off whenever they want.
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