Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build Created 4 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Created 4 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Posted 2 years ago2016-04-10 22:53:06 UTC Post #329795
@Jessie : they were talking about the "floating precision"
Shepard62700FR Shepard62700FRHalf-Cat is watching...
Posted 2 years ago2016-04-10 23:50:33 UTC Post #329802
The topic is bouncing around wildly, don't try to follow it too closely :P

I want to add a 3D rotatey widget to the texture axes at some point, it'd be an advanced method of editing textures but it's quite possible. But skewing... I'm not sure. I'd need to do some tests, because I suspect that the texture axes need to be perpendicular. That could be wrong because I've never tested it before.

As for this whole floating point shenanigans: most people WANT the extra precision of floating points, which is why Sledge, Jackhammer, and the unofficial VHE hacks all use it. They're not going to change because one person is relying on VHE's rounding behaviour, but I might think about adding a toggle to enable that behaviour if someone really wants it. As long as you realise that using VHE isn't much different to just rounding every vertex to the closest grid point, which entirely defeats the purpose of using sub-grid vertices.

@McSqueaky: Great, thanks for the update. I'll make sure I fix that issue for the next release.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 2 years ago2016-04-13 18:58:58 UTC Post #329891
I problem know. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Posted 2 years ago2016-04-28 09:32:55 UTC Post #329993
Hey @Penguin_boy, how is your progress? I am waiting for new release of Sledge with correct format of map valve220 like same Valve Hammer Editor
Posted 2 years ago2016-05-28 20:02:38 UTC Post #330241
Jesus christ I want displacements in goldsrc. For the love of god!!!!
Posted 2 years ago2016-05-28 20:20:44 UTC Post #330242
It's not the editor, it's the engine that was never coded for it. So even if the editor had the feature, it would do bugger all in game.

And that attitude won't get you anything.
Posted 2 years ago2016-05-28 21:10:55 UTC Post #330243
The idea is that you edit displacements in the editor, and they get converted into tetrahedrons when the .map file is saved for compilation. I had plans to do something similar to get support for instances in GS as well.

I'm taking a break from Sledge. I'm not sure if/when I'll start development on it again. I just don't have the motivation to work on it anymore.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 2 years ago2016-06-13 17:44:55 UTC Post #330410
@Penguinboy, okay! I want you fix correct map format of Valve 220. Without floating point!

It should be same like Valve Hammer Editor. I don't understand why Sven Coop Mappers have no problem? But I have explaind to their because they do not believe me since I have tested curvy hallway than it sees hidden shapes ( texture holes )

Long wait for next release.....

Thanks sorry I am forcing to you. I want you make original version of Map format valve 220 into Sledge Editor
Posted 2 years ago2016-06-13 23:02:34 UTC Post #330424
Even if he hadn't already addressed this very issue stating that he won't do anything about it, the very last post also says that he won't be working on it for an indefinite amount of time.
Jessie JessieLadytype
Posted 2 years ago2016-06-14 22:21:15 UTC Post #330437
Insta ban. ;)
Posted 2 years ago2016-06-15 17:50:10 UTC Post #330450
What is "Insta ban" You mean Instagram will ban or Installation was banned?
Posted 2 years ago2016-06-15 18:28:02 UTC Post #330451
"Insta ban" probably means "Instant ban". That means that something/somebody will be banned instantly, at the given moment.
Admer456 Admer456What's this? Custom title? OwO
Posted 2 years ago2016-06-15 18:57:53 UTC Post #330454
Admer gets it. :D
UrbaNebula UrbaNebulamonster_urby
Posted 2 years ago2016-06-16 12:07:44 UTC Post #330471
Actually it should have been: What is insta b...
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-10 16:42:42 UTC Post #332649
Unrelated to the other comments, i added floating point export support to SC's Hammer as well; i made it an option in the Options menu. Seems like i was following the same train of thoughts.

Nice work on this editor, too bad you aren't working on it anymore though. Is there a list of GoldSource features that are still needed? I couldn't find anything on the site nor on Github.

Regarding SC's engine being old, it's the latest build from the 2013 update. I remember seeing some patchwork code translating OpenGL into D3D code, but it didn't appear to be functional and was removed.
Their engine is using SDL like the vanilla engine.

It's unfortunate that Valve doesn't reply to anybody's requests to open source or license the engine out, because that would also include Hammer. It'd be a lot easier to make a new editor if you had the original's source code, even if some of the code is hard to understand.
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-10 17:19:52 UTC Post #332650
wasnt hammers source leaked? i thought thats what jackhammer is based on
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-10 17:54:35 UTC Post #332651
I liked Sledge, and it's an amazing amount of work you put into it, but I found some of the differences between it and the 3.5 Hammer to be really annoying, after 13 years of working with it.
I don't know if you'll work on it anymore Penguinboy, but if you do, here are some suggestions I'd have:
  • Make the camera turning speed in Mouse view adjustable. For me it feels too sluggish.
  • The jump distance with the mouse wheel scroll is too big. I think this could use being adjustable as well.
  • I'm kind of a speed mapper, so I really preferred when closing an entity dialog box would also apply my changes automatically. With Sledge I keep forgetting to click Apply, and even then I find it to be kinda slow. Maybe you could make it optional to have it apply modifications like in the original?
I understand if you don't want to work on it anymore. Pretty much everyone seems to be using Jackhammer now, which pushed Sledge aside. I don't use it myself, cause reasons. I just stuck with the old 3.5.

@Solokiller:
With Jackhammer and Sledge being around, I don't see why Valve would ever consider opensourcing Hammer 3.5. Considering they didn't put the boot into JackHammer yet, I guess they don't mind it/don't care even that much. Not only that, but there's probably a lot of underground Hammer versions flying about.
I have a talented friend who used the 2010something leak Hammer to make his own Hammer for GoldSrc. He never released it, because he didn't want any legal trouble from Valve.
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-10 19:13:20 UTC Post #332656
To nitpick a little, Valve doesn't have 3.5's source code. The SC team received the 3.4 source code.

Hammer's source code has comments from developers that encountered some weird looking code that a previous programmer put in there, it's also written in VS6 and uses MFC, so it doesn't even compile due to non-standard code that causes fgd parsing to fail silently when fixed.

If i were them i'd open source this old stuff so people can keep it going themselves, they could use the publicity.
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-10 19:20:58 UTC Post #332657
I've been using Sledge again for my competition map, but the weird texturing behaviour still persists. It's really difficult to describe exactly what's going on, but it was my niggle right from the very first version of Sledge I used.

I can only describe it as a sort of disconnect between values and what happens when you right click to apply textures and values (which should be default behaviour as in Hammer, btw)
Changing rotation values seems to uncheck whether a brush is tied to world or face... sometimes.. and applying texture and values with right click seems to try to approximate the exact look of the source brush, rather than taking the standalone values.

So I'll highlight a whole area of my map - tie it all to world and zero all the shift values and rotation values, but then if I apply one of those brushes' texture and values to another brush, it won't be world tied or 0 0'd. It's like nails on a chalkboard for my OCD.

Sorry, I know I'm making a mess of describing this, but the truth is I don't know exactly what's happening. It's just not how Hammer does it and it makes me feel like I never know what values a face actually has, because it's never what I expect it to be.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-10 23:40:43 UTC Post #332662
If I knew what the hell I was doing, I'd help out with Sledge :( It all seems so complex though, with my limited programming experience...
Jessie JessieLadytype
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-11 01:29:27 UTC Post #332663
Solokiller's a fairly talented guy who somehow manages to code at the speed of light, is Sledge something that you'd have the motivation to try fiddling with at some point?
Instant Mix Instant MixTitle commitment issues
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-11 01:58:16 UTC Post #332664
Wasn't Sledge supposed to get a full rewrite to target Linux and Mac ? I've read that somewhere that I can't remember.
Shepard62700FR Shepard62700FRHalf-Cat is watching...
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-11 10:10:59 UTC Post #332665
@Instant Mix

I really don't have time to work on yet another project :P
I can offer some assistance for debugging and perhaps some reverse engineering of Hammer, but beyond that i really don't have time.
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-11 14:31:58 UTC Post #332666
Totally understandable! HLEnhanced + the model viewer + day job is stressful enough I'm sure. If anything I should really get off my backside and learn C/C++ , shouldn't be too difficult with other languages under my belt.
Instant Mix Instant MixTitle commitment issues
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-11 15:54:21 UTC Post #332667
My gripe is the bug when alt-right-clicking on anything other than a 90 degree angle; it does something weird with the texture axis'
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-11 17:31:15 UTC Post #332668
I totally get where Archie is coming from. Right click texturing in Sledge has always been a little bit off compared to the original functionality. It wouldn't be much of an issue if it wasn't my primary method for texturing. :P
UrbaNebula UrbaNebulamonster_urby
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-14 23:22:31 UTC Post #332712
i guess somebody on this forum developing sledge editor. i have a suggestion about it.

i dont sure maybe this is obsolete but. i was planning to make a brush car modeled from original one. then i realized it would be easier if i could place a background image to views.

i never attempted to do somtihng like modelling real one. would expert mappers agree this i dont know, but if it is possible and viable could you add that feature to sledge.

-why i need to model that kind of brushwork?
-i can motivate and practise when modelling with brush.
-also it would help with making complex brush from sketches.

this feature used on modelling.

http://isaacwilliams.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/blender-2-1-basic-setup.png
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-15 12:14:50 UTC Post #332720
Just place a brush with a texture on it and use that as a reference.
Shepard62700FR Shepard62700FRHalf-Cat is watching...
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-15 22:55:48 UTC Post #332727
clever idea :) worth a try, it takes long to see what i can done with that. and i wonder are there any expert mapper doing stuff like this?
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-15 23:22:33 UTC Post #332728
Just place a brush with a texture on it and use that as a reference.
I've done this many times to create quick layouts from sketches.
It can be done for more complex brushwork, but if you need to get that detailed, you might as well toss a model in there.
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-16 00:45:14 UTC Post #332731
ok, thank you Tetsu0 for the answer. :) and also thank you Shepard62700FR for giving this idea :)
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-16 21:01:24 UTC Post #332742
oh just noticed i guess there is an example of putting texture to model complex brush. it is done by "instant mix" for half-life reimagined, saw from the 4th page of compo 34 forum. i didnt aware of his work. what a coincidence :)
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-27 12:49:00 UTC Post #332851
Apologies if these are reiterative!

Alt-P'ing in Sledge giving me
entity has invalid key/value pairs
error for every entity, does this just mean I need an updated FGD? (my current is halflife.fgd)

Quickly testing another map, I found the HLDM map was from some enhanced mod or coop thing, hence all the invalid keys/values :)

Also using entity report in sledge, I see the filtering works, but is there no way to shift/ctrl or select all of a type?
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-27 13:29:15 UTC Post #332864
@Archie @Tetsu0
I remember having texturing issues too last time I mapped, but I think I just suffered through manually aligning everything. Could you do the texture alignments in Hammer 3.x, and import back to Sledge(or would the importing bork the texture alignment?)

I know for the brush lathing-vertex scaling--for Subsanctum I just used Hammer 3.x instead of Sledge because it was faster.

I'm currently using CSGO SDK for the entity report functionality, to blanket select/remove all the entities I'm not using, and conveniently group others for my entry, then importing back to Sledge--it's working out ok so far. (I'd use Hammer 3.x instead, but I don't have it installed on this rig)
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-28 00:23:00 UTC Post #332866
I suppose i could always use hammer for texturing - i keep everything on grid as it is because i'm OCD.
I'd just rather not use 2 tools when I could use one, you know?

Sledge is almost there. I can taste it.
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-28 05:54:05 UTC Post #332868
Yeah correct say who said about Hammer source. Why do we never got from valve because wxwidgets 1.x to 2.x are incompatible to last version. You remember a common error message since closing hammer wgl message. That is why they cannot recompile new binary because WIN API, GTK API and Cocoa API are very changed and work latest version of operating systems. That is why we need use latest version of wxwidgets and we need to rewrite - I am starting to learn and to understand to c++

Like this:
Class program public wxApp
{
public
bool OnInit();
....
};
IMPLEMENT_APP(program);
I will try more than I have good experience of c++ class structure include with OpenGl 4.5.
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-28 08:18:48 UTC Post #332869
Hammer doesn't use wxWidgets, it uses MFC.

I actually investigated the wgl error, it happens when multiple maps are open and Hammer tries to shut down OpenGL multiple times. I think i fixed that in Sven Co-op's Hammer as well.
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-28 10:40:33 UTC Post #332873
@SourceSkyBoxer : WGL (also known as Wiggle) is the API that handle all OpenGL <-> Windows windowing interface system communication. The Cacoa (OSX) equivalent is CGL, the X11 (Linux) is GLX. Nowadays, people are using EGL (for OpenGL ES, OpenVG and Wayland which is gonna replace soon X11) or GLUT (1 code to dominate WGL, EGL, CGL at the same time).

Like Solokiller mentionned, the crash related to "wgl" is likely triggered because of an OpenGL context that can't be shut down or Valve forgot to loop over the opened maps.
Shepard62700FR Shepard62700FRHalf-Cat is watching...
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-28 11:53:14 UTC Post #332875
@Tetsu0
I hear ya brother. Besides a couple quirky things, I find Sledge far and away better than Hammer 3.x--or Hammer 4 for that matter :)
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-28 19:17:09 UTC Post #332878
@Solokiller and @Shepard: Ah sorry I thought like wxWidgets has wgl like this forum

MFC? Oh.. I saw very close to wxwidgets. Thanks for explanation!
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-28 19:50:45 UTC Post #332879
MFC has a structure that is very similar to wxWidgets, but it's an obsolete library for a reason. It uses outdated design practices like absolute positioning so try to avoid it if you can.
Posted 1 year ago2016-12-31 01:18:41 UTC Post #332913
Would it be doable to somehow make point entities--and brush-based ones too I guess--selectable by selecting around or clicking the entity name in 2D?
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 1 year ago2017-03-27 19:38:21 UTC Post #334123
BUG REPORT:

I can't set "Start Off" to a trigger_push brush. I select the respective checkbox and hit apply. When opening the entity properties again it's again unchecked.
Striker StrikerI seriously doubt myself
Posted 1 year ago2017-03-30 11:35:21 UTC Post #334153
I found the last couple days Sledge is ignoring my visgroups, and compiling hidden objects using(using both normal and advanced compile). Was there and update or did i unwittingly change something?
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 1 year ago2017-03-30 11:48:03 UTC Post #334154
Nope, nothing new. I remember that VMF had some visgroup issues, try using RMF instead? Unless you want multiple visgroups, then you're out of luck.

I'm working on Sledge again now after a long break so keep an eye out! (doing a big rewrite of stuff though so don't hold your breath just yet)
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 1 year ago2017-05-01 12:46:51 UTC Post #334710
Since you're working on this again (yay!), I thought I'd do a better job explaining what's gonig on with the texturing:

clicky

So apply face and values should 1) be default behaviour and 2) apply the exact value of the source face (in this example 0, 0 shift). I don't know why it isn't.

It's much more difficult to explain what it's doing with world and face alignment. It doesn't seem to be predictably replicatable, but it's certainly not maintaining a 'world' alignment when applying texture and values. It's like it's trying to match the exact normal-projection of the source face which is... inverting the world alignment? Or something? I honestly have no idea.

Basically the problem is I don't feel like I know what alignment or values my target faces have when i'm texturing. I know it shouldn't matter - if it visually looks okay, then why bother? But all I can say is my OCD hates it and it's really putting me off using Sledge as my main editor, which I totally would otherwise.

I think potentially even keep the behaviour it has currently, but make it its own mode like 'eye-match source face' or something. Apply texture and values should just apply texture and exact values.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 1 year ago2017-05-01 13:43:34 UTC Post #334711
Alt right clicking on a 45 gives you an infinitely stretched texture
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 1 year ago2017-05-01 23:04:33 UTC Post #334715
Thanks Archie, I'll look into it when I can.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 1 year ago2017-05-02 18:39:07 UTC Post #334721
Also this was vaguely discussed before, but I've come up with an instance where it would be very useful again...
Would it be possible to get an equivalent of Ctrl + B (snap selected to grid) to work on an individual vertex level? So every vertex of the selected brush or brushes snaps independently to the nearest grid point? Like Ctrl+B, this would work with whatever grid size Sledge was set to.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 1 year ago2017-05-02 22:16:21 UTC Post #334724
It's simple enough to implement something like that, but it would create invalid geometry most of the time unless you're working with simple cubes or tetrahedrons...
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
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