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Forums > Maps and Mods

03 Oct 16, 21:21
By SourceSkyBoxer
avatar
Member
I am still preparing cool gate border for subway / train from black Mesa. I am thinking better because I know you said better I use default textures like original Half-Life or Nightwatch Textures.


If you don't like my style of gate border than you can write here - I Should change...

PS: You can add me as friend from moddb, http://www.moddb.com/members/ssbje If you want... Because you are good supporters.
04 Oct 16, 17:39
By Bruce
avatar
Member
I don't think you are risking anything with Xash, just dont try to make any money off of it. Doesnt take much brain to understand that
04 Oct 16, 20:50
By abbadon
avatar
Member
Quote:
Doesnt take much brain to understand that


I am brainless then unhappy - :( Headcrab Basher - :crowbar:

But, could not valve sue you for using the hl sdk to do a mod and run that mod under another engine, or distribute the mod togheter with other engine or even point others to use another engine than Valve's one? , the more I read the EULA the more I get confused, probably it is because my english sucks, I must give you that wink-wink - ;)
04 Oct 16, 23:24
By Bruce
avatar
Member
they are more likely to offer you a job
05 Oct 16, 13:17
By abbadon
avatar
Member
Quote:
they are more likely to offer you a job


Yes,probably as shiner unsure - :\ Headcrab Basher - :crowbar: , no seiously, I mean what I did say, acording to the EULA you are limited to Valve´s "environment", so I was confused about using other engine like Xash3D, not only to run, but also to distribute the mod with. confused - :confused:
05 Oct 16, 15:34
By Shepard62700FR
avatar
Member
Quote:
G. Restrictions on Use of Content and Services

You may not use the Content and Services for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions, and to make personal, non-commercial use of your Subscriptions, except as otherwise permitted by this Agreement or applicable Subscription Terms.


TL;DR

Xash3D is illegal
05 Oct 16, 15:49
By abbadon
avatar
Member
Oh,crap... Gak! - :gak:
05 Oct 16, 16:00
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
Quote:
they are more likely to offer you a job

Yeah, like the guy who hacked their servers in 2003. Valve promised they would give him a job too.

Now, more seriously, you're certainly taking risks, not opportunities. That being said, risks are more likely to be very low.
05 Oct 16, 16:47
By abbadon
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Member
Ok. smile - :)
05 Oct 16, 22:07
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
Hello guys do you think what is fast acceleration of game? I have readden news about Java and C++. "Done Right, Java can be blazing fast. To be blunt: Java will always be easier to Do Right than C++. We provide Java developers with the tools they need to make highly performant 3D games on par with any other engine out there, without the headaches of compiler code." I am really surprised - I still learn OpenGL from As3 with OpenGL Wrapper sec than it works fine. ( Check my Moddb blog ) I don't know how programming is fast if 3D direction moves and accelerates so fast. But I don't think Java is faster than C++. I have learned about OpenGL with glBegin and glEnd ( just I found Nehe GameDev but it is very old code because it uses sometimes to glaux.h )

I tested how is it easy to learn with LWJGL 2.8.4 to 3.0.0 but 2.8.4 is very better than newest version of LWJGL 3.x because it hasn't display class and it works full screen and windowsscreen.
06 Oct 16, 03:16
By the_markie
avatar
Member
Java is so crap that Microsoft had to rebuild Minecraft in C# for xbox one and windows 10 because they wouldn't want that garbage on their platform.
06 Oct 16, 10:08
By SourceSkyBoxer
avatar
Member
Really is Java crap??? crap or waste?

But I saw Java has loading native extensions - If you have Open Solaris OS by Oracle Corporation than you would like to play Half-Life under Solaris OS and you will be happy if I create "Java Half-Life Launcher" with loading java library ( so close to client.dll and server.dll )
I don't want they have problem of conflict like client library example mod doesn't support for Linux, Mac OS X or Android than Windows Users are arrogant. That is stupid. That is why I have found LWJGL and I choose version of LWJGL 2.8.4 because it still support for Solaris OS.
For Android, Blackberry and iOS works only OpenGL ES like LWGDK or Android OpenGL ES

client and server libraries jar file if you do not worry whatever you play under Linux or Mac OS X because LWJGL has a lot of native extensions via class define calling so like LoaderInfo of AS3.

I know you said Java is crap but maybe Java developers will be happy you know I have tested since initial biggest file of Minecraft with Java files. It works fine for me my Windows 7 - no problem. But how are Mac OS X , Solaris OS and Linux? I think they are mad to Windows users. If you use Linux than Minecraft has not to load native extension for Linux OS.

That is why it is reason....
06 Oct 16, 10:18
By Solokiller
avatar
Member
C# can embed native code in it, Java can only link with native libraries. C# beats Java every time.

Minecraft runs pretty badly because of Java. It just can't handle the massive amount of data being processed by it, and if you run a lot of mods you'll notice the memory usage spiking to several Gb easily. Some mod packs won't run on 32 bit systems at all.
06 Oct 16, 11:26
By Striker
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Member
Whoever says Java is crap certainly hasn't consulted the TIOBE index.

It's actually the purpose of the language which wasn't to create high-performance games.
06 Oct 16, 15:24
By fuzun
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Member
I hope both Java and Android to die. Let's pray to get a MeeGo remake soon.
06 Oct 16, 16:51
By Admer456
avatar
Member
Nothing dies until it gets a cannonball in the chest, or becomes too old, not-literally speaking.

In this case, a "cannonball in the chest" is a very very big flaw of the programming language, and "becomes too old" simply means "not up to the standards".
06 Oct 16, 18:56
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
Guys, stop talking trash about Java. Getting motivated for my studies is already hard enough, if in addition to that I learn that what I'm learning is useless and bad, I'm not sure how I'll do... :p

But actually, I like Java. (even though that's the only language I know besides PHP)
06 Oct 16, 19:27
By abbadon
avatar
Member
I think that when you study computing science in university you have to learn languages like C and then move to others, I think java should be the means not the end of learning. wink-wink - ;) I remember how I did study microbiology in the first course of university only to never touch it anymore, but it was essential in anathomopatology. wink-wink - ;) Don't feel you are wasting your time!.
06 Oct 16, 21:29
By Shepard62700FR
avatar
Member
Quote:
Microsoft had to rebuild Minecraft in C# for xbox one and windows 10 because they wouldn't want that garbage on their platform.


Microsoft is just stupid, they will have to support different source codes just because their Xbox One is way too much dependant of C#. Since their Xbox is just a modified version of the Windows kernel, they could have just taken any JVM and installed it on their Xbox One with the proper settings, job done.

As for Windows 10, the UWP (Universal Windows Platform) is a waste of time and a shit load of crap, also, if like me you prefer to use the standard PC login method instead of a MS account (because the "use an Internet account as PC account" is stupid), you can't access the Windows Store which means you can't download/install the game. Even the CEO of Epic Games can tell you that our "legacy" Win32 still have years to live. There is no difference between Minecraft UWP and Minecraft Win32 on Windows 10 so in the end it's just "OH LOOK, WE PORTED OUR GAME TO OUR PLATFORM THAT NOBODY WILL USE BUT WE'LL DO IT FOR MARKETING PURPOSES #YOLO_SWAG_PROGRAMMING_MONEY".

Quote:
client and server libraries jar file if you do not worry whatever you play under Linux or Mac OS X because LWJGL has a lot of native extensions via class define calling so like LoaderInfo of AS3.

But how are Mac OS X , Solaris OS and Linux? I think they are mad to Windows users. If you use Linux than Minecraft has not to load native extension for Linux OS.


Who uses Solaris to play video games ? About the native librairies, I have (re)downloaded Minecraft on Linux, I typed "java -jar Minecraft.jar" in my Terminal and voilŕ, the game just ran fine (and I even managed to gain 7 FPS compared to Windows 10). If LWJGL is yelling at user because of "missing OpenGL extension or something" it's the user's fault, not yours. This reminds me of the early days of Minecraft where you had to update LWJGL and such yourself because the launcher downloaded obsolete versions (it caused a huge pain in the asses of Linux users too).

Quote:
Minecraft runs pretty badly because of Java. It just can't handle the massive amount of data being processed by it, and if you run a lot of mods you'll notice the memory usage spiking to several Gb easily. Some mod packs won't run on 32 bit systems at all.


Microsoft also made a mistake, 1) if you take the standard Windows installer, you'll get a built-in outdated JVM. 2) Regardless of 1) the default settings point to a 32 bits JVM (even on a 64 bits PC). 3) The default JVM settings are designed by retarded monkeys who can't read a documentation properly which is causing the problem you describe.

This is why I use some special JVM settings (they come from the Internet, they're not mine), if you have 1 Gb to spare for Minecraft :

Quote:
-Xmx1G -Xms1G -Xmn128m -XX:+DisableExplicitGC -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX:+UseParNewGC -XX:+UseNUMA -XX:+CMSParallelRemarkEnabled -XX:MaxTenuringThreshold=15 -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=30 -XX:GCPauseIntervalMillis=150 -XX:+UseAdaptiveGCBoundary -XX:-UseGCOverheadLimit -XX:+UseBiasedLocking -XX:SurvivorRatio=8 -XX:TargetSurvivorRatio=90 -XX:MaxTenuringThreshold=15 -Dfml.ignorePatchDiscrepancies=true -Dfml.ignoreInvalidMinecraftCertificates=tr
ue -XX:+UseFastAccessorMethods -XX:+UseCompressedOops -XX:+OptimizeStringConcat -XX:+AggressiveOpts -XX:ReservedCodeCacheSize=2048m -XX:+UseCodeCacheFlushing -XX:SoftRefLRUPolicyMSPerMB=2000 -XX:ParallelGCThreads=10


If you have 3 Gb to spare to Minecraft :

Quote:
-Xmx3G -Xms3G -Xmn768m -XX:+DisableExplicitGC -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX:+UseParNewGC -XX:+UseNUMA -XX:+CMSParallelRemarkEnabled -XX:MaxTenuringThreshold=15 -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=30 -XX:GCPauseIntervalMillis=150 -XX:+UseAdaptiveGCBoundary -XX:-UseGCOverheadLimit -XX:+UseBiasedLocking -XX:SurvivorRatio=8 -XX:TargetSurvivorRatio=90 -XX:MaxTenuringThreshold=15 -Dfml.ignorePatchDiscrepancies=true -Dfml.ignoreInvalidMinecraftCertificates=tr
ue -XX:+UseFastAccessorMethods -XX:+UseCompressedOops -XX:+OptimizeStringConcat -XX:+AggressiveOpts -XX:ReservedCodeCacheSize=2048m -XX:+UseCodeCacheFlushing -XX:SoftRefLRUPolicyMSPerMB=10000 -XX:ParallelGCThreads=10


Depending on the computer and the JVM, what I've posted may work or not, so please don't bash me if they do nothing or worse.

Also, Minecraft still relies on "immediate OpenGL" (like Half-Life), hence why OptiFine or a mod that allow you to use modern OpenGL (if your PC allow you to do it of course) is highly recommended.

Quote:
I hope both Java and Android to die.


Java cannot die, it already conquered a lot of areas that C# will never conquer (like Windows can't conquer areas that are dominated by Linux). Android became a victim of Google's cancer, their forced "Google Apps" on Nexus ROMs which OEMs (Samsung, Motorola, Sony...) uses is one of those reasons. On my Motorola Moto X 2013 (codename "ghost"), my stock ROM starting to act like shit (even after multiple factory resets), I took the risk of installing "Oct-OS" and I succeeded, this result in less CPU/RAM being wasted, more battery life, no more Google/Motorola junk and my phone can live for more than 5 years. If you can, find and install a pure AOSP (Android Open Source Project) ROM or MiUI (chinese are good developers and phone manufacturers, way to go Xiaomi ^^) and you won't blame Android again. I have the feeling that Google becomes a cancer by killing everything it touches, "Google Chrome" is one of their another victim. I wish Windows/Apple/Steam/AMD/ATI and many other companies die but that won't be possible because they are supported by goats or they have monopolized their market.

Everyone should understand that Java isn't designed for fast paced games like Striker mentioned. And I think this applies to C# as well, if you are looking to make a FPS/RTS/racing game (in other words, a game where "a tiny delay matters"), then Java (and probably C#) aren't the proper languages, move to a "low level language" like C or C++. If your game is something like a Space Invaders, Tetris, Monopoly, then it's ok to use a high level language. Recently, I started programming a Were Wolf game with client-server multiplayer and maybe webcam/microphone capture support in the future, I could have used C# but I'll loose the compatibility with Linux and OS X (unless everyone install Mono as CLR), using C/C++ would require more time and I don't want to deal too much with the low level stuff and guess what I have chosen ? Java. You also need to take in account that each language has it's advantages and it's limits, even for C and C++ which some people consider as "gods". If you want to argue about programming languages, a web site already exists for you: https://wiki.theory.org/YourLanguageSucks

Quote:
Guys, stop talking trash about Java. Getting motivated for my studies is already hard enough, if in addition to that I learn that what I'm learning is useless and bad, I'm not sure how I'll do... :p

But actually, I like Java. (even though that's the only language I know besides PHP)


Like I said above (and Striker said it too), Java is pretty cool as-is even if it has some downsides (a 100% programming language will never exists) and it's reputation of being used in enterprises is well deserved (at least in France, I don't know about the other countries).

Quote:
think that when you study computing science in university you have to learn languages like C and then move to others, I think java should be the means not the end of learning. wink-wink - wink-wink - ;) I remember how I did study microbiology in the first course of university only to never touch it anymore, but it was essential in anathomopatology. wink-wink - wink-wink - ;) Don't feel you are wasting your time!.


Assuming we put aside the fact that I was reading tutorials and praticising on my own when I was young: during my first year of "specialization" (I was 18 years old back then), the first language I learned was C#, Java and Python and they all are "high level programming languages", when I graduated to university at 20, I was being taught C (using ANSI ISO C90 standards) which is this time a "low level programming language". Why we teach in this order ? Because the execution environment of "high programming level languages" (CLR on C#/JVM on Java/Python interpreter) makes a huge part of the dirty job for you: you don't have to deal with memory allocation, you have useful types (List, Map, Set, Dictionary...), in other words, you have the "right to be dirty". When you move to C however, you don't have the built-in List, Map, Set, Dictionary types, you have the joy and charm of dealing with pointers, you wanted memory allocation ? Do it yourself (and clean it yourself).

We live in a world today where programming is getting being taught to very young kids (I saw experiments on 6/8/10 years old with graphical programming languages then "high level programming languages"), imagine teaching to 6 year old kids structures, pointers, memory allocation.
06 Oct 16, 22:07
By Archie
avatar
My Empire of Dirt
In what world does this chat belong in a WIP thread? Back on topic, please.
07 Oct 16, 10:33
By Trempler
avatar
Member
Get your ass back into the core, Archie!! grin - :D
<3
07 Oct 16, 15:15
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
Quote:
In what world does this chat belong in a WIP thread? Back on topic, please.

Sorry. Here's a WIP I'm working on:


With a bit of luck, I won't be the only one who found that funny. tongue - :P But more seriously, here are some pics of my TWHL entry (below, not above). I might improve a bit the lighting, but otherwise I can't help the fact it looks empty. I spent days doing all those models and I think I'll make a break now. :p (but I might improve things for a potential next version)




07 Oct 16, 15:33
By abbadon
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Member
Wow O_o
Is that goldsource?
07 Oct 16, 16:12
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
HUD and lighting would indicate so.

Very impressive work. Nice clean, yet complex architecture. The textures look a little under-detailed, but then again looking around the room I'm in right now there's not much of a 'grain' on the walls or ceiling, and you wouldn't want any grunge on a house like that, so I guess that's a non-issue.
07 Oct 16, 17:36
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
Thanks guys! smile - :)
I think the fact the textures look under-detailed is an impression, since I resized them in Hammer to like 0.3 in general.
07 Oct 16, 17:43
By zeeba-G
avatar
3D
I love seeing architecture in goldsource. It's always been my favorite way to flesh program out.

Loulimi, i'd recommend aligning the wood textures with the timbers, other wise it doesn't feel as believable.
08 Oct 16, 01:35
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
Yeah sure! Don't know how I missed that one. surprised - :o
08 Oct 16, 05:23
By DiscoStu
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Member
That looks pretty good.
08 Oct 16, 08:42
By NineTnine
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Member
Shepard's post gave my mouse wheel a workout it's never had before.

also nice house Loulimi
08 Oct 16, 20:20
By Highlander
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Member
Loulimi:
I like it so far, but I'd try making the lights less bright perhaps. Also the bed in the first shot is too close to the ceiling, I'd imagine whoever sleeps there must bang his head against it a lot.
I suggest adding a fireplace somewhere perhaps, fireplaces really add to the atmosphere of a house.

I've been redesigning an ancient piece on a level with 12k solids. This is from like 5 years ago, and it was so ugly I don't even want to remember how it looked. Doing this redesign, I reduced the solid count to a mere 8k, and lightmaps from 64 to 44.




I suppose it'll still raise counts quite a bit before I'm done. There's a lot of stuff to add/change still.
08 Oct 16, 21:49
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
Yeah the lighting is too bright, I'll try to make it less bright but the thing is, since windows are actually models, a not-high-enough brightness made them looking strange.
Concerning your two other suggestions, that's actually a real location, so I don't have much freedom on that. But worry not! There is actually a fireplace. Somewhere...
And you're right, I think the bed is a bit more distant from the edge of the ceiling in reality. :p

Concerning your screens: I like the neat, detailed and precise mapping. Really nice architecture as well. Apart from that, it's hard to make other comments without the lighting.
I'm not a big fan of the grey/desaturated aspect, but again, I don't know how it looks in game.
08 Oct 16, 22:01
By SourceSkyBoxer
avatar
Member
Hello @Loulime
I explain you simple:
255 255 255 0 <- black like but you can not see room if light's bright is zero.
255 255 255 1 <- very dark
255 255 255 10 <- more dark
255 255 255 100 <- bit dark normal
255 255 255 150 <- normal light style from c1a0's light styles
255 255 255 1000 <- bit bright
255 255 255 10000 <- more bright
255 255 255 100000 <- very bright
255 255 255 100001 <- like sun's light

I hope you understand that property of light's bright?
11 Oct 16, 14:33
By kruk
avatar
Member
Loulimi

You can control the light position on the models just by adding "zhlt_copylight" in SmartEdit
so the models in map dont rly contsrain you and fit as you need.

Highlander

Heh XD im now redoing some of my own old work for a mode i whant to finish
Got smilar isues now with lack of color wariations with the textures i made;p

trying to use some color on light but at the end i will need to do more color variations and more textures.


The more i work with the mod the more i whant to fix ;p
strted with character that is ..6 years old 0-o since i dont have the source files but i go the mdl with all animations ;p
just trying to retexture it with prerendering the light, did a base test with no colors just the shapes and light.


Posible will redo as more as i can since it seems to work ok in game?
11 Oct 16, 14:38
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
Sounds promising Kruk, I'll try this out!
14 Oct 16, 16:23
By Admer456
avatar
Member
Emphasizing the "Gold" in GoldSource:



I recently added a nice tunnel:



14 Oct 16, 18:26
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
You didn't run into any issues with clipnodes? If so I'm impressed! :p

Map is barren, you could may be add some models / play on the lighting to make the view more pleasant perhaps, although filling such a big empty area will be challenging.

Other than that, quite impressive shapes and size for Goldsource, although I hope it allows for a decent FPS. Tunnel textures need aligning. I'd suggest Align To View, but while not impossible, that would be a hell of a pain to do with your particular tunnel.
14 Oct 16, 19:31
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
I think the map is entirely under what you're looking at and what you see is mostly inaccessible.
14 Oct 16, 19:54
By Admer456
avatar
Member
Well, I uploaded the map, test it for yourselves, don't just stand here.

@DiscoStu
Most of the terrain is accessible, only the edges aren't.

@Loulimi
Heh, framerate isn't a problem on my device. I have a crappy Intel GMA 965 chipset, with only 64MB of dedicated VRAM. And it handles the map like a pro at average 20fps, and drops to 10fps on more demanding cases.
The lowest I get is 5fps. And 90% of you have 100x better systems than my "carrot" (worse than a potato!) laptop.
14 Oct 16, 20:23
By Loulimi
avatar
Member
20fps, that's a problem, especially if it's the best you can get. And newer hardware does not mean better performance when it comes to Goldsource. I had a crappy PC with 900Mhz, not much Ram either, it still used to run Goldsource maps far better than newer PC that could run modern games.

Quote:
Well, I uploaded the map, test it for yourselves, don't just stand here.

We don't necessarily have time/want to test your map, and you didn't even provide a download link.
14 Oct 16, 21:49
By Admer456
avatar
Member
20fps isn't a problem. It was the average framerate while looking at the terrain. However, if you're inside, then it's a solid 50fps, I think.

While play-testing the map, I monitored performance on 5 spots:

Spot 1. 50fps, inside
Spot 2. 5fps, outside, most detailed area
Spot 3. 20fps, asphalt road
Spot 4. 20fps, upper floor
Spot 5. +60fps, vents

So, a total average of ~33fps. But my GPU really is the bottleneck here, I've seen Intel HD Graphics perform better at any game, when compared to my laptop's GPU, including any GoldSrc game.

Of course, that is only approximate info, only raw assumptions, because I didn't really activate r_speeds when monitoring.

And yes, I didn't provide the link in this thread. But rather in the Vault.
15 Oct 16, 10:32
By Trempler
avatar
Member
you should upgrade Bro! grin - :D
15 Oct 16, 19:45
By Admer456
avatar
Member
@Trempler
Sure, this will do. Don't say "Get something better", because before this one, there was this list, and it had even worse things in it.

And no, I can't buy a used PC and then upgrade it, because my dad wouldn't buy me a used PC, not even if it meant the whole world to everyone.

In fact, I think that he wouldn't buy me the parts anyways, because my PC building wish has been on since 2013. Back then I wanted the Radeon HD 6450.

And then, I can't afford a seemingly "better GPU for the same price" because I live in Bosnia and Herzegovina, where the prices are 2x higher in 2 cases. With 1 case being the USD to BAM chart (1 USD = 1.75 BAM), and the other case being that you would expect a $100 card here to cost 175 BAM, right? No, it costs twice more than that.

To keep this on-topic, I will also share a little more information:

I am currently "tessellating" the terrain, and adding the credits into the already mentioned tunnel.





It's nice to see how this map evolved, you know, from this:







To this:





(of course, those are older screenshots)

16 Oct 16, 03:07
By NineTnine
avatar
Member
I've heard some say people arn't excited about mapping anymore, so heres a little something-something I've been working on. Still flying Opposing Force high this year (someone has to!). Pretty prototypey and needs some polish (especially the stuff in the last screenie!)

16 Oct 16, 06:40
By Highlander
avatar
Member
That looks pretty nice so far, but in the second screen the ceiling is kind of bland looking. Maybe try raising some bits out, creating some pillars. Also in the second shot, the rock texture at the top should be bumpy, not that flat.
27 Oct 16, 19:30
By Highlander
avatar
Member
Final result of the revamp.

27 Oct 16, 20:59
By Admer456
avatar
Member
I presume it looks nice, but on my phone's screen it looks too dark. On my laptop's monitor, though, it would look perfectly bright enough.
28 Oct 16, 03:38
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
Holy crap that's goldsource.
28 Oct 16, 09:20
By Instant Mix
avatar
Mr. Good Map!
That seems incredibly dark, I can barely make out what's in that screenshot!
28 Oct 16, 10:17
By Highlander
avatar
Member
It depends on the monitor settings. On my home PC's monitor it's just perfect, but now that I look at it from my work, it's truly very dark. Good thing I implemented proper post-process gamma correction.
06 Nov 16, 14:47
By Highlander
avatar
Member
Out of motivation for my main mod, so I've decided to work more on making something functional out of my really ancient, pre-Raven City mod I worked on back 10 years ago.

I had to recode everything from scratch, as the sources were lost. I took some liberties to do random stupid things. Here's an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8AxL4AlbP
0&feature=youtu.be


Figured I'd recreate the old black hole effect that was left over after ClusterFunk died. Still needs some work though.
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