How the heck?! (O)_(O)
I never knew that was even possible...
Competition 30
Created 13 years ago2011-03-27 11:15:04 UTC by
Strider
Created 13 years ago2011-03-27 11:15:04 UTC by
Strider
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 10:03:06 UTC
Post #293384
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 10:09:57 UTC
Post #293386
Hold on. I don't like the idea of using exploits to bypass the competition rules. The '30-brush' limit was imposed using the standard definition of a brush - which is a convex solid constructed from intersections of planes.
I think the only reason your map compiles is because you're using HLFix, which splits concave solids into convex solids. I'll ask the other admins, but I think that disqualifies your entry.
I think the only reason your map compiles is because you're using HLFix, which splits concave solids into convex solids. I'll ask the other admins, but I think that disqualifies your entry.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 10:19:23 UTC
Post #293389
So this isn't a real map?
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 11:02:05 UTC
Post #293395
No, it's a real map and i followed the rules of the compo to the letter, but PB is right: this map will NOT compile without HLFix.
I can't lie, i'll be pretty heartbroken if my entry is disqualified outright because of this. ='(
I spent quite a bit of time dickering with these to even get them to pass a vis compile, let alone rad. (their use is not for the faint of heart, considering these solids will generate maxleaffaces and alloc;block full errors at the drop of a hat)
However i must agree with PB, this is a bit of an exploit even though i never intended it that way. I just figured i came up with a creative/innovative way to get more use out of a single brush, while staying in the bounds of the compo guidelines, and i'm still proud of that.
I'll agree/accept whatever the mods decide.
edit x1000
I can't lie, i'll be pretty heartbroken if my entry is disqualified outright because of this. ='(
I spent quite a bit of time dickering with these to even get them to pass a vis compile, let alone rad. (their use is not for the faint of heart, considering these solids will generate maxleaffaces and alloc;block full errors at the drop of a hat)
However i must agree with PB, this is a bit of an exploit even though i never intended it that way. I just figured i came up with a creative/innovative way to get more use out of a single brush, while staying in the bounds of the compo guidelines, and i'm still proud of that.
I'll agree/accept whatever the mods decide.
edit x1000
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 11:24:35 UTC
Post #293397
The way I see it, is that you're using a custom tool to bypass the 30-brush limit. The real number of brushes in your map is the number in the RMF that HLFix outputs, since that is the map that is actually being compiled.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 11:37:36 UTC
Post #293398
and i'm still proud of that.and rightfully. With the neccessary programming, one could create an entire map--regardless of how complex--with a single brush. The "exploit" you found and made use of must have taken some effort to discover. I can't speak for anyone else, but this falls neatly into my definition of getting the most out of a brush limit. The rules didn't cover potential use of exploits, nor use of HLFix (not to claim that I could've had better foresight.) The question here is, what is being considered the brush count? As we were required to upload a hammer shot "proving" that we stayed within the brush limit, it seems logically sound that the brush count displayed in Map Properties is considered the brush count.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 11:45:00 UTC
Post #293400
I like the way you think quailcreek! (you're not an attorney btw, are you?)
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 11:59:42 UTC
Post #293401
I could create a command-line tool to add into my compile batch file. Said tool could convert any map into a totally different one that uses, say, 500 brushes. Using my custom tool, I could compile an empty skybox (0 brushes) into the 500-brush map.
It's no different to using HLFix, which converts one concave brush into many convex ones. The number of brushes in the entry should be the one that gets input into the first official compile tool (CSG, I think).
It's no different to using HLFix, which converts one concave brush into many convex ones. The number of brushes in the entry should be the one that gets input into the first official compile tool (CSG, I think).
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 12:21:19 UTC
Post #293403
Hmm, this is a tough one. While we didn't set any rules regarding exploits like this (I didn't even know you could do this), it does technically break the brush limit. I don't want to have to disqualify you for this, Captain Terror. I never foresaw anything like this, and it was damn clever of you.
We'll keep it up for now, but we're going to think about what to do. Obviously we can't allow this in future competitions like this, lesson learned.
How does everyone else feel about letting it stay, just this once?
We'll keep it up for now, but we're going to think about what to do. Obviously we can't allow this in future competitions like this, lesson learned.
How does everyone else feel about letting it stay, just this once?
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 12:31:14 UTC
Post #293404
Let him get away with it, or at the least let him re-make his map quickly and re-upload it without concave brushes. After all you didn't state tricks like this one weren't allowed, we couldn't have known.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 13:34:05 UTC
Post #293405
My vote stands....
and yes, I voted for your map captain...
Map from a screenshot is what I got out of it...does it really matter how you get there?
Loved ALL the entries...
and yes, I voted for your map captain...
Map from a screenshot is what I got out of it...does it really matter how you get there?
Loved ALL the entries...
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 14:18:26 UTC
Post #293408
When looking at all the response here, the Captain has a good chance of getting a prize. In that perspective, it's a bit unfair that he got there due a glitch. It seems that most people don't share this opinion with me, so i'd say just leave the poor man be. 
I voted for door, btw. I like how he managed to give a certain feel to the scenery. Other entries I liked were Soup Miner, Hunter en some others. I tend to like small yet meaningful entries, instead of the 'big' ones that actually get most appeal here.
I voted for door, btw. I like how he managed to give a certain feel to the scenery. Other entries I liked were Soup Miner, Hunter en some others. I tend to like small yet meaningful entries, instead of the 'big' ones that actually get most appeal here.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 17:28:42 UTC
Post #293423
Uhh, we all know that a concave brush takes two brushes therefor I and everyone else were unable to make them with a single brush. At the same time I don't care if he isn't disqualified. I think its silly that you did this though lol.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-11 18:09:52 UTC
Post #293428
you're not an attorney btw, are you?No, but I agree that I'd make a good one. Kind of like I'd make a good everything.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 01:23:25 UTC
Post #293446
No reason to disqualify him, but now that the cat's out of the bag I'm expecting a whole lot of people who did vote for him to change their vote because they disagree with what he has done, even if it was, by some strange definition of the word, legal.
edit: i also voted for door, loved that such a simple scene can have so much impact. really tells a story imo, moreso than any other entry.
edit: i also voted for door, loved that such a simple scene can have so much impact. really tells a story imo, moreso than any other entry.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 02:09:38 UTC
Post #293447
I'm with Trapt on this one.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 04:49:43 UTC
Post #293448
Ok I didn't think captain should be dis. but I just counted over """seventy""" solids. Thats madness.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 07:39:05 UTC
Post #293451
This is about as controversial as TWHL gets.
On another note, I never voted for CT's entry but if I had, I don't think this would have changed my mind.
On another note, I never voted for CT's entry but if I had, I don't think this would have changed my mind.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 08:18:45 UTC
Post #293452
I guess the crowd has spoken. You're not disqualified, CT. :>
We'll just have to be more careful with our rules in the future, so I don't have to disqualify people and feel like a big meanie pants.
We'll just have to be more careful with our rules in the future, so I don't have to disqualify people and feel like a big meanie pants.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 11:48:36 UTC
Post #293458
Wow thanks for the support and the exemption! Even those who disagreed with what i did were very nice/understanding about it, which i really appreciate. =)
Also, it doesn't bother me in any way if people change their votes from this; I completely understand. I'm just extremely happy to still be in the compo, and feel really bad about raising such a fuss..
Seriously, thank-you all you kind critters, and GOOD LUCK to everyone who submitted entries!!
Also, it doesn't bother me in any way if people change their votes from this; I completely understand. I'm just extremely happy to still be in the compo, and feel really bad about raising such a fuss..
Seriously, thank-you all you kind critters, and GOOD LUCK to everyone who submitted entries!!
)
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 18:01:12 UTC
Post #293468
As it was posted before this "glitch" was caught I see no real reason to disqualify. The whole premise of the competition was a bit vague to start with. Didn't Dimbark use a completely "different" engine to create his submission; and this was allowed. I would have to re-read an older post to verify this. The HUD does not look familiar to me.
It's a screen shot for Jimmie's sake. I think everyone did great.
It's a screen shot for Jimmie's sake. I think everyone did great.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 19:02:42 UTC
Post #293471
He uses source 2006, this falls 450% under the definition of 'Source Engine' and I'm not sure about you, but I don't believe that you can easily change a mass amount of the engine to actually make the brushwork work differently.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-12 19:38:30 UTC
Post #293472
The only difference between engines (concerning this compo) is the lighting and texture resolution. Brushwork is the same between Goldsource and source.
and CT, you sneaky sneakster.
and CT, you sneaky sneakster.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 11:12:02 UTC
Post #293485
Can you guys put up some rule saying if you vote for your own map it won't count? TY.
Also when does the voting end?
Also when does the voting end?
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 11:24:07 UTC
Post #293486
It's good to see that things are friendly here, no iron admin disqualifications, no bitching, accusations or resentment. Just a nice happy place where people map for fun, not a serious focus on winning and beating the enemy. If this were politics everyone would be slagging off each others proposals.
CT - your map was beautiful and would have been my top vote but I changed my mind in fairness of the competition, but also because it was generally speaking impossible and inpractical in mapping terms. You left me with a difficult choice between 2 joint second votes! >:(
CT - your map was beautiful and would have been my top vote but I changed my mind in fairness of the competition, but also because it was generally speaking impossible and inpractical in mapping terms. You left me with a difficult choice between 2 joint second votes! >:(
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 11:49:05 UTC
Post #293487
Can you guys put up some rule saying if you vote for your own map it won't count? TY.But it does count. You guys are totally welcome to vote for your own work.
Also when does the voting end?Probably this weekend.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 12:23:35 UTC
Post #293488
If you vote for your own map, victory won't feel as sweet.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 12:36:02 UTC
Post #293489
There's been over 40 votes so far, nobody should be concerned. It's not like anybody has to know you voted for your own map, either. 
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 12:37:51 UTC
Post #293491
Out of curiosity, do you guys know who voted for what?
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 13:13:42 UTC
Post #293492
But it does count. You guys are totally welcome to vote for your own work.Wait, what happens if everyone votes for their own map? Also How is this fair, we can vote for ourselves just to bolster our chances to win, but what if we don't do it? We could lose by like one point only because the winner voted for his own stuff.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 13:15:31 UTC
Post #293494
it's a moral dilemma, do whatever you want.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 13:35:42 UTC
Post #293496
Wait, what happens if everyone votes for their own map? Also How is this fair, we can vote for ourselves just to bolster our chances to win, but what if we don't do it? We could lose by like one point only because the winner voted for his own stuff.
There's been over 40 votes so far, nobody should be concerned.The three leading entries right now are more than 2 votes ahead of each other. If they weren't, who cares, it's why we chose silent voting. If you really believe your work deserves to win, you can do something about it.
Out of curiosity, do you guys know who voted for what?Penguinboy might.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 13:40:28 UTC
Post #293497
Fair enough. When does the voting finish?
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 13:58:14 UTC
Post #293498
Probably this weekend.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 15:57:41 UTC
Post #293499
Just in terms of brushwork exploits, how the heck did doodle get a hollow dome in under 30 brushes?
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 16:02:48 UTC
Post #293500
Make sphere, chop in half, texture with glass? It's probably not hollow.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 16:05:40 UTC
Post #293501
But it's not tied to an entity in the Hammer screenie. Wouldn't that cause it not to compile everything inside it?
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 16:16:06 UTC
Post #293502
cheats!
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 18:30:06 UTC
Post #293503
That's a good question O_o
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 18:41:38 UTC
Post #293504
Doesn't source automatically make glass textures into entities?
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 18:58:32 UTC
Post #293505
To the lab!
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 19:01:27 UTC
Post #293506
@ luke
Yup
Yup
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 19:03:59 UTC
Post #293507
Well that explains it, then.
Sorry, wasn't trying to start anything. Just curious!
Sorry, wasn't trying to start anything. Just curious!
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 19:09:34 UTC
Post #293508
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 23:14:29 UTC
Post #293509
THE CONTROVERSY CONTINUES, in the next exciting episode of 30 Brushes: Judgement Day.
)
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-13 23:19:36 UTC
Post #293510
Who will win? What will happen? What will Penguinboy contribute? How many upset people will there be? How many happy people will their be? Will anybody give a s**t about Dimbark's map? Find out next time on....
TWHL
TWHL
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-14 02:59:36 UTC
Post #293513
Like sands through the hourglass, so are The Works of Half-Lives?
I feel sick.
I feel sick.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-14 03:02:16 UTC
Post #293514
and so you should.
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-14 03:06:41 UTC
Post #293515
Can't vote, I'll say for the thousandth time I can't see images hosted at imageshack 
Posted 13 years ago2011-04-14 03:15:13 UTC
Post #293516
All of the images on the voting page are hosted by TWHL.
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