Post your screenshots! WIP thread Created 11 years ago2007-12-16 00:58:58 UTC by doodle doodle

Created 11 years ago2007-12-16 00:58:58 UTC by doodle doodle

Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 11:01:21 UTC Post #333982
I remember that one of my old CS maps (de_caceres) took 39 hours to compile on a P4 3.2 Ghz laptop with 1 GB Ram 400 mhz. :crowbar: The poor bitch was almost fried because of it!!
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 12:09:23 UTC Post #333983
Wait, a Pentium 4 with 3.2GHz!? I only thought they were around 2GHz. :P

Yeah, I wonder what if someone makes a GoldSrc version, of the Source compilers? Then some people could easily take incorporate the Lightmap Scale option into a map editor, for example.

And, there's one thing I must say during compiling:
NEVER SET PRIORITY TO 'REALTIME' DURING COMPILING.
Always remember this. This applies to hlcsg, hlbsp, hlvis and hlrad.

Basically, the "realtime" priority is only for the mouse and the keyboard, i.e. the main input devices! If you choose to set the priority to real-time then your mouse, keyboard and the entire system might freeze.
It happened to me once. :3
Admer456 Admer456Lean, mean, mapping machine :3
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 12:26:46 UTC Post #333984
I wouldn't recommend even -high, tested Tremplers Stalkfire on my i7-7700k, with compilers set at high i got only a 10 sec gain from compiling on -low (which is the default for vhlt) the PC was unusable during that time.
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 12:31:06 UTC Post #333985
Yeah, I tried HlRad with -high.
My laptop was suffering, and I had to kill hlrad.exe. :(

So yeah, I guess that we came to a conclusion:
If you want a detailed, outdoors map, just be patient and wait until it finishes.

What jacksepticeye said: "Speed is key!" is false.
Admer456 Admer456Lean, mean, mapping machine :3
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 16:59:55 UTC Post #333988
lightmap scale has nothing to do with the compilers or the editor, its in the engine
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 17:12:30 UTC Post #333989
Huh, I didn't know that.
Admer456 Admer456Lean, mean, mapping machine :3
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 19:08:59 UTC Post #333991
lightmap scale has nothing to do with the compilers or the editor, its in the engine
Lightmap scale do affect the compile time, since a lower lightmap scale requires more calculations on a single surface. Lightmaps can therefore be optimized where high quality lighting isn't required, or in low-contrast light areas.
Dr. Orange Dr. OrangeBoth a fruit and a color
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 19:09:03 UTC Post #333992
lightmap scale has nothing to do with the compilers or the editor, its in the engine
Lightmap scale do affect the compile time, since a lower lightmap scale requires more calculations on a single surface. Lightmaps can therefore be optimized where high quality lighting isn't required, or in low-contrast light areas.
Dr. Orange Dr. OrangeBoth a fruit and a color
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 19:29:12 UTC Post #333993
@rufee : if I had experience with multi-threading, GPU computing, CSG, BSP, VIS and RAD I would have looked at it.
Shepard62700FR Shepard62700FRHalf-Cat is watching...
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 20:14:30 UTC Post #333994
Last time i looked into the compiler code i saw a lot of platform specific code using ancient APIs. You can redesign them from scratch more quickly than updating them.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 20:24:02 UTC Post #333996
Wow!, instead of ZHLT there will be PSCT!! (Power Source Compiling Tools). :D
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-16 20:37:22 UTC Post #333997
I vote for: GPCT!
(Gold Polyhedron Compiling Tools)

Coming in 1st April, 2033, at 4:20 PM., exactly when Half-Life 3 releases. (OK, you could ignore these 2 sentences because it's a joke xD)

I don't know, it sounds cool!
BSP-based mapping (CSG should be appropriate, too) is basically about polyhedrons. So, I think it's OK.
Admer456 Admer456Lean, mean, mapping machine :3
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 03:33:39 UTC Post #333999
Yeah, I was having a good look at the terrain capabilities in Source and trying to mimic them in Goldsource.

May have gotten way in over my head with this project. REALLY way in over my head.

But it did get me thinking.

Aside from the pain in the ASS that is PARANOIA's renderer and meaningless code in the old SDK. I decided to start having a look at the interface system Valve left in.

I also looked into Half-Life 2's code and saw the same thing...but for physics objects/collisions/terrain. What if we could mount the HL2 .dlls into Half-Life 1 and be able to do basic terrain or physics collisions. Kinda like what Solokiller is doing with VGUI2 in HLEnhanced? Is this possible? I think it would require a massive overhaul with Vectors and all that stuff...but maybe someday?

Say drag the .dll over and extract the interface version/names and use the CBaseGameInterface from HLEnhanced to hook the .dlls over and bring out the functionality to at least get something to work, like building a physics-mesh and seeing it or seeing displacements. Obviously implying it will have it's own interface file.

On another note, might have to ditch the renderer and wait for a better one. Or maybe switch to Trinity. Or at least the client-side entity manager.

EDIT: But we should have a cleaned-up version of VHLT that is optimized. Sure mappers could use that and get way better performance.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 07:14:33 UTC Post #334001
I don't think you can use HL2 DLLs within HL1
Shepard62700FR Shepard62700FRHalf-Cat is watching...
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 11:52:54 UTC Post #334002
That'll never work because you'd need the engine to implement support for it.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 12:48:13 UTC Post #334003
Meanwhile, Source is just... there. To use. Like, for free.

But nah, why use Source for it's features when you can try to make a bastardized version instead
Crypt Crypt120% sorry!
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 14:05:16 UTC Post #334004
Im also kind of against all of these hacked up clone engines. But it is what it is.
We are just stuck in the past apparently :)
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 14:11:24 UTC Post #334005
1000x this ^
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 15:34:29 UTC Post #334007
There wouldn't be any clones if Valve did their job.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 15:51:35 UTC Post #334008
I wouldn't exactly say were stuck in the past.

It's just fun to find out what we can do with an old engine.

Like 5 minutes after posting that I just had a look in the source and saw there were calls in the engine. :(

But if Valve stopped being lazy and released the engine already, then might it be possible? I wouldn't doubt it would require an overhaul and would be impractical, but maybe?
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 16:06:20 UTC Post #334009
If the engine were open source then anything is possible.
But i'd say the first thing to add would be an interface to query for available features, or all the different forks will end up making a mess (Gold-Life has displacements, Half-Source has 3D skyboxes, etc).

Too many forks will kill modding just like not having the engine source.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 16:08:28 UTC Post #334010
What if Valve secretly wants us to use Source and phase out GoldSource?
Dr. Orange Dr. OrangeBoth a fruit and a color
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 16:18:25 UTC Post #334011
Then they should say so instead of keeping it a secret. I am tired of people keeping secrets for no reason in this community.

I sent another email to Valve, this time stressing that i will consider a lack of reply or vague/generic reply to mean we can do whatever we want. Now is not the time for secrets, it is the time for progress.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 16:18:47 UTC Post #334012
They've certainly neglected it at least.

Last Github commit: Latest commit 5d76170 on Dec 30, 2014. And I can't remember the last Steam update for it except the beta. And they say they are only fixing critical game-breaking bugs. If that.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 16:27:03 UTC Post #334013
Yes, but at some point the new updated engine would go too far out of scope to be even called GoldSource anymore.

I am a purist in this sense that i believe all the bugs, limitations and everything else is what GoldSource truly is and should not be messed with, if this is why Valve is not releasing the code then i applaud them. Even if they would what would happen? Suddenly all the bugs would be fixed? I doubt it, i can bet you Valve would be too lazy to release the updated version on Steam anyway. Last i checked unless you are a die hard Russian non-steam HL player whatever the majority of players are on Steam. Look at Id Software, they release all their old engine's, sure there's a ton of mods, but if someone plays them its probably the original game. Its the same here.

Even if i sound like a crusader for 1 engine i have nothing against all of you who do make these engines, it proves that you know what you are doing, but i believe your skills and talents are better put to use somewhere else.
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 16:37:28 UTC Post #334014
I suppose that's why people wanted to run their mods under Svengine, until they broke compatibility and everybody had to go back to the old one. They were happy to finally get past the ridiculous limits and bugs, and then the rug got pulled out from under them.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-17 22:02:43 UTC Post #334027
I'm just gonna leave those here :

Server redirection exploit (AMXX example) - Reported 9 Feb 2014 - NOT FIXED

Recent Update: DayofDefeat crashes after some time with SegmentationFault (Linux) - Reported 20 Dec 2015 - NOT FIXED

Console command "speak *anysoundfile" will crash game - Reported 27 Oct 2015 - NOT FIXED

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/halflife/issues/1622 - Reported 25 May 2015 - PATCH STILL WAITING TO BE ACCEPTED FOR EVERYONE TO USE

Add all the dangling pointers, memory leaks, crashes tickets reported by Solokiller and you'll see that Gold Source is starting to be messy.
if this is why Valve is not releasing the code then i applaud them.
Quote from here :
Once a year someone talks about maybe pulling it together to open source it but once again there are not resources to do the actual work need to package it up. The Sven Co-op team was luck in that there was a package and someone to make it available to them, that does not exist today.
i can bet you Valve would be too lazy to release the updated version on Steam anyway
You are right, Valve can't monitor 540545640 versions of Gold Source. But developers can provide the changes as some kind of "unofficial patch/port" like ezQuake, Darkplaces does for QuakeWorld. Those who prefer to stick on standard Gold Source stick to Steam, those who want more stuff would look to these ports.
Shepard62700FR Shepard62700FRHalf-Cat is watching...
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-18 02:58:40 UTC Post #334034
@Victor933: That is one lovely level crossing. My only nitpick is that the signal lights are wrong* ;P

While I was watching the video I heard a sweet distant train horn as the lights changed, I thought it was amazing sound work and went back to hear it again... and it wasn't there. Went back and forth several times and I couldn't find it. Turns out I heard an actual train in the distance out my window.

*Wrong means: The one on the left is red because duh, there's a train coming. But the one on the right should be green, signalling clear to the train, otherwise the train should stop right there or it would most likely crash onto another train that's either stopped ahead, or worse, coming in on the same track in the opposite direction.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-19 02:37:12 UTC Post #334045
@DiscoStu
My only nitpick is that the signal lights are wrong* ;P
The signals do change. They switch to yellow first, then green, then switch back to red as the engine passes.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-19 03:38:37 UTC Post #334046
In my defense I was too distracted by OMG TRAINS
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-19 19:57:56 UTC Post #334054
Once a year someone talks about maybe pulling it together to open source it but once again there are not resources to do the actual work need to package it up. The Sven Co-op team was luck in that there was a package and someone to make it available to them, that does not exist today.
Someone made it available, who's that someone? 5 min question for Valve to ask internally. If Valve's intentions are to open source it and only sven has the code then get the code from sven... (Has no one thought about this?)

While the ability to execute commands on the client side is an ethical concern and should not be done. The command is there and therefore is a feature which can be used for things like redirecting players around or worse. Ive though many times to write a server reverse proxy for my needs.

I seem not to be able to stop derailing this WIP thread :(
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-19 20:27:49 UTC Post #334056
Alfred provided it. I've asked him multiple times already. I've also pointed out that they could get it back from the SC team to no avail. The Cry Of Fear team wanted to help and contacted Valve and got the same reply.

They just plain don't care. The open sourcing statements, the "we made it easy but won't because exploits" stuff is just a bunch of excuses. That's all you'll get in this community these days.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-21 07:51:47 UTC Post #334068
Isn't it a little too late? VALVE/Sven team kind of lost the moment to open their sources because we now have:
  • opensource Xash3D
  • opensource ReHLDS
  • unnamed opensource engine client implementation (not complete yet)
  • opensource sp/mp/coop mod - XDM
  • opensource tools
  • alternative map editors
So, when (if) VALVe(r)(tm)(wtf)(gtfo) suddenly decides to open their crap, we won't be needing it anymore. :D
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-21 08:08:12 UTC Post #334069
Valve doesn't like Xash3D for various reasons and I don't like Xash3D too.
Shepard62700FR Shepard62700FRHalf-Cat is watching...
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-21 09:20:18 UTC Post #334071
I dislike VALVe and closed-source stuff a lot more.
Like it or not - Xash3D is currently the only working alternative to proprietary GS. And people working on its portability. You probably seen it working on ARM/Android.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-21 20:28:14 UTC Post #334073
I don't like Xash3D too
I like it because it overrides most of the limits of GS engine. :(

I did read a lot about Xash3D, and I am still wondering what did the Xash3D "steal" from Valve to make that company so angry. If we believe Valve, the HL code is 99% Quake source with less than 200 lines of new code, so, are those 200 lines of code what Xash3D team "steal"?. Well, I am simplifying it too much, sorry.

But, and this is other question, could the parts that are supposed to be "steal" code be developed through other ways apart of simply stealing the code?, is it proven that Xash3D guys did steal that code?. I am so confused, overall with the Quake part. I can not understad why an engine done with free software, as the Quake source is, is taken in a so low consideration if it´s done with code available for anyone who wants to put their hands on it.

Of course I understad that for many of you any kind of piracy-reverse engineering is like killing a dolphin with a spiked club or so, I don´t like this kind of things, don´t get me wrong, but I am not sure where to put Xash3D developers in that list of undesired persons.

Apart of this, there´s the fact that Valve don´t care a s***T about developers, and they don´t care about what they´re doing with GS (look how they ignore Solokiller´s E-Mails)... :/

I hope Solokiller release some day the PowerSource SDK along with the Powersource engine with VERY extended limits that will depend on actual hardware specs that are 100 times higher than in 1997.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-21 21:03:11 UTC Post #334074
been working on an On A Rail inspired DM map for a few days (get outta my head @Snehk)
User posted image
User posted image
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-21 21:08:18 UTC Post #334075
HL code by far is not Quake code, yes its based on quake and quake2 a little, but is leaps and bounds ahead of what quake was at the time, with Valves additions to the code. Models with bones to name at least one thing.

If the code is not 1:1 what they supposedly stole it doesn't count as stealing. Unless there are patents involved, which serve to protect the idea and the realization technique behind it in this case code which as far as i am aware is not patented. And there are also licenses. Anyway code theft is kind of hard to investigate, because you can always claim to have stumbled upon a solution which just happens to be identically coded as Valves.

Piracy and reverse engineering are not the same, they go hand in hand because RE can be used to crack DRM games and such and that's why media makes it look like its a bad thing. Granted 80% of all licenses have a "No reverse engineering" clause which i believe also exists in Valves license.

Back when Valve were making the engine the quake engine was not free or open source and they bought (licensed) it from Id Software (makers of quake). And even to this day all the Id Software engines are free for non commercial use, meaning you can't make any money off selling a game with the engines code in it. That's why i believe Valve does not care about all the reverse engineering that's going on with the GS engine. All this interest in it just makes Valve more money in the long run.

Valve is a very closed company and its no surprise they don't reply to his or anyone else's e-mails for that matter. The fact that he did get a reply is sort of a miracle :)

In the end you are here because you like working with this engine, i don't see you modding for Quake or any other open source even totally free engines so who's the real winner here ? (psst it's Valve :) )
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-21 21:29:16 UTC Post #334076
...what did the Xash3D "steal" from Valve to make that company so angry.
IIRC, Xash3D and other sorts of projects that use it had code from the 2003 HL2 leak. Which is deemed illegal to use by Valve, and for good reason.

EDIT: Also, Xash IMO is lego-work that crumbles if you touch it, I appreciate the effort that the developers put in, I just don't like the end-result.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-21 21:32:56 UTC Post #334077
Yes!, at least with me Valve is winning!! :D

But I never said that I don´t like GS, ;) I say that Valve policy about independant developers is not very clear or helpful, and in the case of Xash3D, unexplainabily harsh; afaik, Xash3D people is not earning money for its engine, or are they? :( Maybe I must read more and investigate more. :/
Also, Xash IMO is lego-work that crumbles if you touch it, I appreciate the effort that the developers put in, I just don't like the end-result.
It works fine, except for sprites, it does extrange things (bad colors or sizes, or sometimes they even show up), but I think UnkleMike is working on that, at least I hope so. ;)
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 06:46:33 UTC Post #334080
I say that Valve policy about independant developers is not very clear or helpful
Factoring in everything, today it sounds like this: Do what you want as long as you don't make money off it.
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 10:43:55 UTC Post #334082
I think that what´s the last thing in their priorities for people like Sookiller is to earn money with what they do with Gold Source. ;)
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 14:17:01 UTC Post #334083
I did read a lot about Xash3D, and I am still wondering what did the Xash3D "steal" from Valve to make that company so angry. If we believe Valve, the HL code is 99% Quake source with less than 200 lines of new code, so, are those 200 lines of code what Xash3D team "steal"?. Well, I am simplifying it too much, sorry.
GoldSource is very different from Quake. The code that handles startup alone (up to the code that was in Quake: Host_Init: https://github.com/id-Software/Quake/blob/bf4ac424ce754894ac8f1dae6a3981954bc9852d/WinQuake/host.c#L835) is more than 200 lines by itself. Things like studio models, the C/C++ interfaces (Quake uses an interpreted language called Quake C), detail textures, Steam integration, etc were all added by Valve. There's also the WON auth code (which surprisingly is easy to reverse engineer for a Windows DLL) is/was also unique to GoldSource.

It's very likely that at least part of Xash is based on leaked code. For instance, this function: https://github.com/FWGS/xash3d/blob/2ba1e30d4cc571444bc2677c6cd7277cabb7c6af/engine/client/s_vox.c#L235

The only reference to that function that i could find is from the Source engine leaks: https://github.com/LestaD/SourceEngine2007/blob/43a5c90a5ada1e69ca044595383be67f40b33c61/se2007/engine/audio/private/vox.cpp#L368

Strangely enough, i remember seeing something similar to this in Sven Co-op's code as well, so i guess it might have been released somewhere and subsequently lost.
Perhaps it's somewhere in the HLCoders mailing list, i can't be sure because there is no easy way to search through it and Google can't index it (afaik). That's a good side project to make, a simple tool to search through all HLCoders archives. Too much information is essentially lost in there.

One modder asked Valve if he could release his Xash3D based mod on Greenlight, they got a reply that said it wasn't fully legal: http://www.moddb.com/mods/half-life-subtitles-mod/news/sad-news-legal-issues-lack-of-time

It's a bit vague because they don't specify exactly which parts are illegal, just that it's not the original engine. Perhaps if you ran Xash3D under GoldSource it would be legal (as PowerSource's MetaLoader does), we can't know that. If the people involved with Xash could prove that they didn't use leaked code it would probably clear things up, as would Valve doing something about it.
EDIT: Also, Xash IMO is lego-work that crumbles if you touch it, I appreciate the effort that the developers put in, I just don't like the end-result.
I couldn't get HLE to run under it, seems that they use a different approach to loading mods. I'm probably just missing something simple though.
Factoring in everything, today it sounds like this: Do what you want as long as you don't make money off it.
I think that what´s the last thing in their priorities for people like Sookiller is to earn money with what they do with Gold Source. wink-wink - ;)
I sent an email last week where i told them if they didn't reply or gave vague replies i'd consider that to be a silent acknowledgement giving people permission to do whatever they want when it comes to reverse engineering.
I haven't received any replies.

So i guess we can do whatever we want without fear of repercussions, provided we don't make money off of it.

I did tell them about an exploit that lets you play any game for free using Sven Co-op as a base, it even lets you break the "prevent players from playing HL singleplayer alone" rule that they set for them.
It isn't an obvious exploit by any means, but if people figure it out, it would undercut their GoldSource profits, at least until the exploit is patched.
I'm not sure if that is even possible without making a mess of SC's Steam deployment though.

I'm going to wait a bit longer before i start reverse engineering stuff, right now i'm experimenting with a rebuild of the map compiler tools: https://github.com/SamVanheer/HLCompileTools

Just getting the basics up and running to see what that winds up as. A complete rebuild would take a lot of time, and there may be breaking changes in some areas (command line arguments, settings.txt) so i was going to ask for some feedback first to see what people thought of it.

I think we've cluttered this thread enough with off topic discussions though, can this be moved to its own thread?
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 14:39:03 UTC Post #334084
undercut their GoldSource profits
:lol:

These days the amount they make from Goldsource per year will probably be around what they make from CSGO in five minutes of in-game purchases.

At the end of the day, there's absolutely no motivation for Valve to care about any of this. They're loving and supportive of Goldsource modders, but why would they actively take steps to allow GS to stop being GS? All these Frankenstein's engines like Xash are just such a pointless endeavour. I get that it's fun to tinker with an old engine, but getting mad at Valve for not caring is daft.

If you want Source features, use Source - otherwise, you're better using an entirely open-source engine like Unity.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 15:51:00 UTC Post #334085
These days the amount they make from Goldsource per year will probably be around what they make from CSGO in five minutes of in-game purchases.
Hell, the amount they make from goldsource per year is probably less than I spend weekly on lunches.
Pretty much everyone who wants Half-Life/CS 1.6 has it, and even back when the engine was high tech there weren't many people lining up to license it.

It doesn't really make business sense for Valve to care about goldsource. Besides, if recent interviews are to be believed, they're actually making a new engine anyway.
JeffMOD JeffMODCall 141.12
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 16:31:30 UTC Post #334086
@Crypt Haven't forgotten about the threading topology comparison, I'm just really slow. Sorry!

Quite happily surprised that I am not only able to return to this after a week of not doing anything with it, but being motivated enough to continue working on it with no problem. Finished the midsection and I'm almost finished the bottom plate.

User posted image


The midsection was easily the most difficult piece to finish due to it's complexity, and my inexperience with high-poly subd topology. Once the bottom plate is finished, I only have 5 small pieces left which are going to be a cakewalk (knock on wood) compared to the rest of the mod. This is by far the most detailed model I have ever created.
Crollo CrolloTrollo
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 17:50:27 UTC Post #334087
At the end of the day, there's absolutely no motivation for Valve to care about any of this. They're loving and supportive of Goldsource modders, but why would they actively take steps to allow GS to stop being GS? All these Frankenstein's engines like Xash are just such a pointless endeavour. I get that it's fun to tinker with an old engine, but getting mad at Valve for not caring is daft.

If you want Source features, use Source - otherwise, you're better using an entirely open-source engine like Unity.
If you were to switch to Unity (or any other engine, including Source) you'd lose the right to use Half-Life 1 content. Do you want to tell the Science and Industry team that they should just switch engines? They built on top of a lot of existing content that would suddenly be illegal to use.
Here's the opinion of their lead programmer:
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/halflife/issues/1712#issuecomment-270819426
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/halflife/issues/1712#issuecomment-272752203

You'd be forcing people to throw away nearly 2 decades worth of content just to get around engine limits that are trivially, pathetically easy to deal with when you have access. E.g. the maximum map size is basically just a few networking related function calls that can be made customizable.

Consider this: Valve required the SC team to prevent people from playing the Half-Life campaign alone, yet there are multiple ways to do just that, ranging from running a mod that loads the maps you can get from SteamCMD (and you can make your own mod easily enough) to using the exploit i've mentioned several times.
Said exploit can only be fixed by making changes to SC's Steam depots, and i've seen no changes there that would prevent the exploit from being used.

Similarly, i've pointed out many times that you can reverse engineer all of the engine's code easily using IDA. It's practically the same as releasing the source code, only it's not immediately usable. This is in direct contradiction of Gabe Newell's statements about not releasing it to prevent hackers and cheaters from abusing it.

There is nothing stopping people from breaking those rules and doing exactly what Valve wants to prevent from happening. If they won't act to fix exploits or stop people playing games for free, then we don't have to worry about legal action if we reverse engineer the engine.

If they do act when we do that, they'll be sending a very powerful message that contradicts their own statements in the recent AMA and interviews. So i don't think we'll be having to worry about anything.

I guess i'll start rebuilding the launcher this weekend then.
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 18:01:03 UTC Post #334088
If you want Source features, use Source - otherwise, you're better using an ?entirely open-source engine like Unity.
Wrong. Most of us don't care about fancy graphic bump and specular thingy, we want those stupid 1997 limits overriden, just that. :)
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 18:22:31 UTC Post #334089
Have to agree with Archie here...
I don't think it can really be worded any better than he put it, but to reinforce the point: If you want a different engine--Use a different engine. Outside of this forum, I have never heard of anybody so demanding of the goldsource engine's source code.

Now I'm not even close to being a competent programmer, but I don't need to be to understand the implications of trying to bring an ancient engine in the modern world. Newer engines are designed to take advantage of the countless advancements in the computer world that have been made since the late 90s, even if you don't use "advanced features" such as bump mapping and specular mapping. (Shaders aren't exactly "advanced" features by the way...)
With the amount of band-aiding you're going to be doing to the goldsource engine to keep up with that, you might as well just use the open-source quake engine instead, or even better, use a modern engine if you want modern features.

I think it's great that people can still be passionate about a great game, and more specifically it's engine, but there is a point that you have to push past the nostalgia and accept that obsolescence is in fact real.
Crollo CrolloTrollo
Posted 2 years ago2017-03-22 18:44:56 UTC Post #334090
I think it's great that people can still be passionate about a great game, and more specifically it's engine, but there is a point that you have to push past the nostalgia and accept that obsolescence is in fact real.
Well. I think that it is not nostalgia, it is laziness. In my case, I don't want to spent more time learning HL2 coding, modelling (I think it is far different from HL1 because of physics, etc) and probably mapping ;) I did struggle with GS coding, so you can imagine what will happen with me tryng to understand HL2 source, hahaha!, :walter:

And for Xash3D, we just need to develop mods under Xash3D publish them as to be used under GS but advising to use it under Xash3D or whatever engine. Advising to use something is not illegal... :crowbar: Oh, wait!, could it be something like encouraging to use pirated software?, unless there's some legal notification or someone condemned... could a clone engine be recommended of being used?
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