Forum posts

1_if I take a look on the stats report on the log file of my last compilation, I can see :

"faces 17311/65535 (26%)"

from a quite ambitious CS 1.6 map project, 80% done ...

http://www.ideaseed.net/maps/CS16/screenshots.html

then I think before polygons limits, you might so much other problems to face that that polygon limits mightn't be a problem ever for you ...

2_personnaly, I never had troubles with the RAD compilators, but I think the main reason that the rad couldn't work, is a wrong bsp file (with weird faces), or/and bad entities like lights with wrong settings etc ...

3_the rad process the lightning of your map : it makes shadows, bright or dark areas etc ... if you do a compilation without rad, you will have a map with textures exactly as they look in Hammer.

I cannot believe it.

I mean, when I take a look on a HL2 screenshot, it's something that cannot be done with Hammer 3.5, then how the hell the Hammer 4 interface may be almost identical as the old one ? a more powerful engine need a more complex editor in my opinion ...

Big textures with tiny scaling look good, but at great cost.

that was exactly my plan when starting the project : big textures and scales most of the time under 1.0, a CS1.6 revolution for the guys who are fed up that crappy crates fest ...

I hate super stretched low definition textures in CS, I feel like fighting in a jpeg 400% zoom on photoshop, then I planned to make the whole map with big textures : a good way to test my texturer/mapper skills in my opinion. if the project was less ambitious, that could have been a success, but I seemingly asked too much for our ol HL engine ...

hi, I don't have HL2, never seen it, never check it, nor the editor : k it's mainly a matter of hardware and time : ...

what I am wondering since people started to talk about HL2 mods, is mainly about vehicles, would it be possible to make a mod that could enable players to battle for example with tanks ?

I mean :

_is it possible to have drivable vehicles in a HL2 mod ? I know it's yes,

_is it possible to have a turret on a vehicle ? I know it's yes,

_is it possible to have drivable and breakable vehicles ? I think it's yes ...

_is it possible to have a turret that an other player that the driver can control ? I think it's yes ...

_is it possible to have many turrets on the same vehicle ? well, I don't know ...

_is it possible to have turrets, that can be broken (explode) without make the whole vehicle destroyed in the same time ? ....

thanks if you know

Also, the problem with big textures is that you quickly run out if texture memory.

I confirm, so do weird scales (<0.5) too ...

perhaps you could try the loading the map on another computer

already tried.

Something tells me this map might be a little too complex for the HL engine to handle.

not actually : rescaling the whole map textures to 1.0 (instead of something between 2.0 and 0.2), and the map is fine again ...

/me looks intently towards Counter-Strike Source

a member of my team already suggested to switch the whole project on CSS, but I don't have CSS, then don't know the new gameplay and editor ...

this is an awesome map and i hope you can get it working again

thanks, it will ! what we are about to conclude in the team, is that the map is crashing while loading because of too much weird textures scaling on the map (I am a nub on mapping, especially with Hammer, but not with 3DSmax and Photoshop, and decided to make a lot of high definition textures (3DS rendered bump-mapping effects, 256x256 pixels) to provide the map a unique look, and as the first monthes the textures weren't always matching with the rooms, I sometimes applied some very weird scales, like 0.25, sometimes even 0.1 ... at the beginning there was no problem, then I thought "that's ok"...)

if it's confirmed it's only a matter of mapping scales, we will probably recruit a mapper in the team, in charge of remapping the whole map : I will complete it without texture (just a default one, with a unique scale of 1.0), and if the map when totally completed (every rooms, corridors, covers, crates, lights, doors etc etc etc) is running fine (except it will just looks weird ...), then we can definitely conclude the project is doable, and the mapper will be able to enjoy giving the map the look he wants (I personnaly would like to have an atmosphere between the derelict WWII aircraft carrier in Farcry, and those american action movies on ships or submarines (red october, U571, that steven seagall movie on a battleship etc ...)

then there aren't any matter of video cards or something like that ? if my map is running on my comp, it will certainly run on any comp over the world, and if it crash while loading (see my "allocbloc:full" topic), nobody will be able to load it, right ?

I must fix that damn error ...

without talking about processor and fps, is it possible a CS1.6 map can run on a comp and crash on an other ? why ?

you should try with a big clip box on half the map.

piracy onlys owns developers ...

not that much : I already took a look on the page and applied what I understood, that helped us with the first troubles, but this time it seems we need something else ...

I forgot to mention the system crash when the map loads : there's no problem in hammer or during the compilations ...

my system specs :
AMD athlon 2200+ (1.3Mhz)
512 DDR RAM
GeForce FX 5200

I really doubt there is a matter of specs here : I mean I already checked CS maps that were larger and with more textures with the same definition as mine (256x256), and never had crashes ...

that f#ck#ng error message that doesn't mean anything is killing my project,
and me in the same time as I am on for almost five monthes now : ...

ok, I started this CS 1.6 map project last Summer :

http://www.ideaseed.net/maps/CS16/screenshots_hammer.html

(the screenshot is way out of date, I just mention the link here to help picture the map)

we (we are a team of 3-4 guys) had almost all the typical troubles of Hammer and ZHLT :

leaves

ok you all know what it is : quite stressing when you don't have the right methods, but after some tests, you finally point and fix the trouble, a hole so tight in my case I wasn't even able to see through ...

exceeded_map_maxpatches

I remember had posted something here about that, and some guys (sorry I forgot the nick) helped me fix that : that was about textures scaling.

wadinclude command that doesn't work : no problem, I used batch compiler instead of zhlt for the full compilation ...

all gameplay and typical level design troubles : ok I fixed the player that cannot move because he spawned too close from a brush, I lighted better some rooms, I moved some other lights to create a particular atmosphere, I added a crate to force players to waste some time to jump and crouch to prevent them to reach a special point before the CTs, I added a null face to really create a shadow because the spot that was supposed to do it wasn't finally doing it, I reduced some walls to enable players to fire through, I extended some floors to prevent them to do it on some special areas, I redid many times some rooms etc etc : you exactly know what I mean ...

the map was too large, too much VIS space to compile : no problem, I reduced the skybox, first it was possible to jump from the ship on the sea, and swim around and under the ship, now the skybox is around the deck (level 0), and there are dozens of clip blocks everywhere in the map the players can't go to optimise the VIS compilation.

and now ...

"allocbloc:full"

wtf ...

the curent bsp building report stats :
Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
---------- ------------- ------------- ------
models_______282/400__18048/25600___ (70.5%)
planes____26258/32767_525160/655340_ (80.1%)
vertexes__25639/65535_307668/786420__(39.1%)
nodes____10509/32767__ 252216/786408_(32.1%)
texinfos____2373/32767__94920/1310680_( 7.2%)
faces_____17765/65535__355300/1310700_(27.1%)
clipnodes__26284/32767__210272/262136__(80.2%)
leaves_____7254/8192___ 203112/229376__(88.5%)
marksurfaces_24879/65535_49758/131070__(38.0%)
surfedges___82668/512000_330672/2048000_(16.1%)
edges____43931/256000__175724/1024000_(17.2%)
texdata____ [variable]___6224/8388608__( 0.1%)
lightdata____[variable]___0/4194304____( 0.0%)
visdata_____[variable]___0/2097152____( 0.0%)
entdata_____[variable]___54267/524288_(10.4%)

I carefully followed those limits mentioned on this website :
http://www.siteduzero.com/wc/annexes/erreurs.php#infos

here is the last map information stats :
http://www.ideaseed.net/public/mapinfo.jpg

can you tell me what the f#ck is wrong with my map ? I don't have the feeling to have a too much ambitious project ...

now I simply cannot do anything on hammer : I add one wire netting (a func_wall with a texture with transparency) : allocbloc:full, I add three normal boxes (crates) : allocbloc:full, I just modify the mapping of some faces : allocbloc:full ...

.....................................

I am sorry to expose all that crap here, but I fear now to not be able to complete this project, and really need some help ...

a "fun" map, no details, no webpage : no point to check that ...

people are dumb and I think I can be an accurate representative of them :

if you show your mod, as I noticed while visiting for 2 minutes the website, that this is "counter terrorists (or marines, or super cops : call them as you want) versus terrorists", I will just think "omg why switch on this mod while I pwn on CS, where there are pages of servers ?". and if you tell me "hey man, in this mod there are some technological improvements !", I will just answer "improvements yeah ? if I was looking for that kind of stuff, I will just switch on a CS-like mod with the UT2K4 engine, or the Doom3 one, or the HL2 one, SandBox, SeriousEngine, Lithtech ...".

the point I wanted to highlight.

I am ok with any kind of creation, I mean that's much better than just sit in front of your screen the whole day spamming on forums, watching p0rn, downloading w@rez and so on, but ... sorry, an other CS mod with the old old, so old HL1 engine, man, come on ...

please don't take it as offense, I don't know the project and approve every kind of creation but ... if I tell you it "just" looks like an evolution of counter-strike, what would you answer me ? ...

I am currently working on a map with 100% original materials (I mean textures) : you will be able to download and use the wad once our job will be done, in some monthes ...

a battleships war : CTs spawn on a cruiser, one is controlling the ship, the others guns, machines guns, rockets, missiles, grenades and torpedo launchers, and an other ship is controlled by terros, the goal is to destroy the enemy ship.

... what ?

excuse me but ... what's a "TWHLmix" ?

some TWHL members working together on the same project ?

all this art for a hl ... 1 ... "deathmatch" ... map ...

I am redoing all the lighting since I realized it is differently rendered if I use a fast compil config or a full one

k it's the project am on for monthes, I just wanted to show you :

(CS1.6 de_ pgm dedicated map)
http://www.ideaseed.net/maps/CS16/screenshots.html

feel free to post comments if you have, please just keep in mind the map as mentioned isn't completed.

this problem is one of the typical noobs features :

_first because a noob is mainly attracted by easy things, and want instant results as if they were ordering in a fastfood (common consumer behavior) : I think the soft the noobs are dreaming just got one only big button in the middle of the screen, "do the map", then wait some hours of compilation, then release the century map every week ...
_second, is that you aren't talking to the same guy every time you answer : noobs come, because something is new, popular, attracting, and leave, because they realize they suck, say they don't like the community, the game got bugs, cheaters, something like that, and switch to an other stuff new, attracting, popular, again again and again, the typical behavior of the frustrated consumer. it's as if you were talking to an hydra, with multiple heads, and got some amnesia illness ...
_at last, you aren't answering to the noobs. you think so, but you don't : noobs want results, not technical answers. they are expecting you to do the job, not to give them stuff they will have to think about, test ... that's why they are asking again and again, not asking for technical answers, but guys to make what they would like.

a quality poll system : every map with less than x% (say 20), is directly kicked from the server after y votes ...

oh,
I answered to

Who are you, Anonymous? I bet everyone wants to know your true identity. Why not sign-in when you post?

I didn't see there was an other page : ...

because :

[_] he doesn't want we know who he is
[_] he doesn't have so much time to waste to log
[_] he doesn't know how to register
[_] he forgot his password
[_] he don't know what nick to pick
[_] he doesn't find anymore that nice picture he love to have as avatar
[_] he like that "anonymous" nick
[_] everywhere on the net he goes, he like to play with identities and anonymous status, he feel like a secret agent
[_] everywhere on the net he goes, he have fun being an asshole to not have to assume what he just layed stinking in the middle of the room
[_] he doesn't himself who he is
[_] he is about to tell you who he is, preparing us a big surprise
[_] you are that guy, but as you are schyzophrenic, you don't know that, and are indeed talking with an other side of yourself ...
[_] you are that guy, and have fun posting with the anonymous status to tell some things you want without have to waste your reputation here
[_] he is posting with only one hand, using the other to ####### watching for porn stuff
[_] TWHL unlog him everytime he post
[_] he cannot tell you who he is, else he could have to kill you
[_] his nick is inside every of his post, and he want us to look for it
[_] indeed, that's not a guy who posted, but a dog that jumped on the keyboard, and writed that post at pure random
[_] that guy is trying to tell you he is loving you, but you don't want to understand
[_] he is a guy from a secret scientific company, testing you, for some psychological experience ...
[_] you are talking to a bot, but the logging feature hadn't been coded yet

I knew I shouldn't had to answer ...

So, J.C., in your experience with other types of map editors, how does Hammer compare?

well, my only real experience except Hammer is the Aliens versus Predator 2 lithtech editor I used (tried to at least) 2 years ago ...
(I used too the starcraft and warcraft 2 and 3 map editor, but it's off-topic I think, you can check the maps I did here ==> http://www.ideaseed.net/web/TRM/download/maps.htm )
Hammer itself is fine (I am using it for 6 monthes) : the lego system (the name I give to the grid+block system) is fine once you got it, the shift+tool interface is stupid (because the control key is just under) but you quickly get the hand, but what I really hate with Hammer is ... the compilators : the compilators are real pure crap in my opinion : I think those damn bastards take so much time to compile not because they are compiling the map, but because they are looking to any way (I mean ANY) to find some excuse to not complete the job, like fucking lazy assholes : I mean, come on, my map project is ambitious and we hit most software limits of the compilators, sometimes we got errors "wtf ? what's the problem ? you stopped the compilation because of ... that ?" (can't remember specifically, just it was ridiculous). the "lets play a game : find me" leaks, the "omg too much work MAX_MAP_PATCHES_EXCEEDED error, and some others I don't even want to remember. I never succeeded to complete a compilation with the original Hammer compilators, and I succeded for the first time to complete a compilation with the ZHLT ones (without use the wonderful presets I mean) yesterday, after 6 monthes of experience ! ALWAYS SOMETHING WRONG !

gg compilators : no re tks bye.

well, the monolith AvP2 level editor was overall better than Hammer : more powerful, was compiling even with hundreds of errors (it was just writing a novel of lines of errors and took DAYS), and beyond that, I was able to directly import my 3DS brushes as map elements. the only thing wrong with that editor, was that the game was really sucking (quakish multiplayer levels, crappiest ever gameplay, an awful noobs attracting game (because of the predator cloak+autoaiming weapons), without talking about the lag (I never played with a ping less 200 ...).

I tried SandBox ... 5 minutes : when I seen the interface and the tools, I ran away as fast as I was able too.

but I will retry, someday ...

there is a trigger when the round starts, but not when it ends, then it totally depends of what you would like : ...

wow thanks , but I am not that often here ...

it is taking me so long because I am looking for perfection (I don't want to release a map everybody will say about it "hey nice map", then forget it and let the map die in the middle of hundreds of others on some web databases ...), and because I am unexperienced with Hammer (and HL and the compilators) then most things I do is first an error, then not bad (at least doesn't make the compilation fail), then finally fine after hours of tests (after revised lightings, shadows, collisions and all those stuff that make the life of a level designer so exciting ...)

somebody said (Jimmy Hendrix, but I am not sure) :
"why to play so much (music) notes while it just needs to play the best ?" (sorry for my english, I hope that means something ...)

that philosophy can be applied for everything in life, and actually I am appling it in this project : while I wouldn't like to release middle quality 5-10 maps everybody will say "hey nice map" but nobody will play, I am doing my best on one single shot, then plan to switch on an other editor ...

I am working on that project by the way :

http://www.ideaseed.net/maps/CS16/screenshots.html

almost 4 work monthes until now (at least 4 hours a day, no week-end), and maybe 2 or 3 more ones to complete it : I think this project could be the most time-expending one for CS1.6 (everything 100% original), but sometimes I fear we (we are 3 guys working on it) won't ever be able to complete it because of the software limits ...

is that what you call an awesome map ? right now we have no clue about the awesomeness of the map, because as it isn't completed enough to be tested, it is still possible we will just release a nice looking, but crappy map from a gameplay point of view, because of some details we didn't think the whole project, and wasted half a year on ...

a great advantage of releasing a quickly done map, is that when the concept is good, confirmed, you can still improve it later, with some guarantees your time will be rewarded ...

It's better to spend months making an awesome map than to release a box every week.

I agree, but it's not totally true : a long development project got much more chances to fail than a 15 days one, because of the compilators limits or lack of organisation for example : a good mapper in my opinion has to find the right point between speed and work, a 15 years ultimate roxing map wouldn't be that great, if it's released when everybody forgot the game. at last, there is the problem of fashions too : sometimes people massively play de_dust2 style maps, sometimes they are looking for mindless fy_iceworld style ones ...

this is me by the way : for some reason I've been unlogged, while it's still mentionned "hello J.C!" in the top-left of the page ...

HL2 is that heavy your comp cannot really run it properly ?

what is your hardware ?

this point could be discussed : who is the real responsible, the kid who is proud to "release" his first "map", or the hoster to enable him to upload and display his 2 hours job ?

I overall agree with you, but I think there should be a world for everyone : a noobs place for noobs, and places for the other levels of use of Hammer, what I don't like actually, is that nubs are infesting lists of what could be good stuff, see for example CSbanana with the flash movies ... on an other hand, it is still good I think, from a psychological point of view, to see your job displayed somewhere people can check and comment it, that may make you try to do better, to improve your skills and so on : an artist need feedback from his public ...

on other point we may discuss, is that I call "the copy/paste compilation" : a "map" where the noob just copy/pasted every materials he picked around him he like : models, prefabs, textures, even the map concept ... when I see those guys posting on forums "it's my map", sometimes with mentionning the real authors, sometimes with forgetting them ... I really think this behavior is the worst of the community.

[VDC] Rad Brad's long post

1?) discovery : the guy is just realizing the stuff,
2?) methods : the guy realize there are ways to do the job, that to want is not enough, to think first is essential, to try to gather together ideas and do-ability, to plan.
3?) revelation : the guy realize he like what he is doing, that his life is better while creating this way, he is reaching the best of himself.
4?) reference : the guy realize throughout his works he reached a social level in his community, some people are looking at him, are asking him questions ... his skills are beyond him : he can now work with other guys like him, on higher projects ...
5?) profession : the guy realize he could make his life with this passion, he got skills, a public, his art is about to be his social existence.

these are just the artist levels of consciousness in my opinion.

sorry for my english.

Satan was an angel ? do you mean originally there wasn't demons ? are you sure about that ? it isn't mentioned in the part of the Bible I read : ... where could I read that stuff ? I don't believe in God or anything but me and the guys who trust me by the way, I am just curious ...

I can :

save every 10 minutes max, always on a new filename, and sometimes compress and archive all your works on CDs ...

omg you just broken the diabolic shrine, now nobody can tell what will happen

that topic reached the point break, this zombie mod became totally evil ...

RUN !
RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN !

I don't like maps that aren't de_, cs_, es or as_, I mean real CS maps, understand fy, aim, ka and all those stupid names noobs give to their noobs maps for noobs games. but beyond that, I really don't like people who call a crappy 2 hours job a "map", especially when they decide by themselves the map is "fun" or "nice" or anything else without any test nor considerations to what the users of the map think. beyond that again, I hate when those people only notice on the map I am working on for four monthes the little mistake in the corner I mentioned many times the map is still under construction and that is just a temporary layout : it's awful how less people are skilled and more they are demanding ...

but that's ok, there are noobs in the gaming community, there are necessarily noobs in the mapping one, the whole internet community is totally infested by noobs in my opinion : people who cannot work on anything and just want instant result as they were in a fastfood : abusers, cheaters, lamers ...

but it's not mentioned in the notice when you got your "omg I wanna be a game designer" enlightment

I totally agree with what you said ... I already heard about that EA employee stuff, could you gimme some links about that please ? is that story official ? serious ? can we conclude it's general ?

omg if I cannot be a game designer, what will I do with that poor life ? cursed to buy what the others decide ...

(well, I fear this discussion is going off-topic ...)

what can we call "progress" ?
who define/build it ?
who take advantage of it ?

definitely, I consider myself a victim of the "progress" : while it could be so much better for everyone to educate people, learn them to think by themselves "what do I really want ? what do I really need ?" and stick to "good" things, masses are restricted to superficial things, and looks like to be addicted to the "new" mark. I am trying to work on the video games industry for about 3 years, but every every times this is always the same story :

_not the right soft
_not the right skill
_not the right time
_not the right place
_not the right guy
_never enough, never enough, never enough ...

I keep on learning new softs and working on my portfolio the whole day, but everytime that's just wrong, off-topic ... out of date : the industry changed technology, what people want now is totally different, well man we don't need you ...

progress is killing me.
I hate progress.

I will take a look on Hammer4 as soon as possible, but that means most experiences I got on Hammer 3.5 is now not anymore useful, before the warcraft 3 map editor, before the AvP2 lithtech map editor, before Director Lingo, before Amstrad BASIC ... what I noticed on an other hand, is that everytime it's easier to learn a new soft, when there is a relationship with what you already know, but that is still tiring, so useless, so fast, so senseless ...

It isn't even a bad thing.

looks like you never lost your job because the softs you master aren't "the lastest ones" : I am unemployed for 5 years because I focused on Director while it's flash that is finally go so popular. ok you may tell me "just switch to flash", but that isn't that easy to always always always forget everything you painfully learned to always always switch on a new technology that the first years is just crap (always crash, not compatible with anything, awful interface ...), and when it's finally good, something f#ck#ng new has just been released : ...

but yeah progress is good, from a carthesian point of view at least ...

when I wanted to hear "kick down the walls" from Toto (Kingdom of desire, 1992) : a song there is on the tape, but for some reason not on the CD. ok that was years ago ...

that make me think about this other topic :

http://www.gamegossip.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21182

the topic is more than two years old, with almost 600 replies and about 7000 views : an aliens versus predator mod with the starcraft engine, no screenshots, no website, nothing, just a pack of guys spamming on the topic, and nobody working on the "mod" : it's strange to see guys excited and talking about something that doesn't exist ...

k I thought I needed to launch it as a mod,
I entered "map rx_museum" in the console, but ...

Mod_NumForName : models/rx_tomb/fern2.mdl not found

k, here is my feedback then :

_the sound files are read-only,
_I don't know how to launch a HL solo map,
_when I launch the map in multi, I got an error : "Mod_NumForName: models/rx_tomb/scorpion_large.mdl not found"

I am just disappointed : I downloaded the file, while watching to the screenshots and thinking "omg an other hammer user that is confusing level editing for CS with architectural art", was hoping to maybe get some inspiration for my map project, when I opened the compressed file ...

"lol he confused the valve folder with the cstrike one !"
"rx_egypt.bsp ?"
"..."

then I posted my comment here.

I never played HL multi and won't ever : I already had my quake time and don't even know if I can run a HL multi game ... I watched his one-post topic and thought "poor guy : he spent time on this job, asking for some attention and nobody give a goddamn fuck here ... k I will post something"

bah I thought it was a CS map ...

the map I am working on is my first and last serious project for/with HL1 : in my opinion, HL1 is totally dead for ages, and the only thing that make it survive is CS and maybe NS, which are going to switch to upgraded versions (CS:S) with HL2, and in addition Hammer/Worldcraft is now a crappy editor next to what has been released for some years (UnrealEd, Doom3, SandBox, ...), then I really see no point to still map for HL1 ...

k I just read the ZHLTProblems.html file : I need to add clip brushes to define more accurately the player-accessable space ...

k I created 1 unit spaces between little contact zones, I made func_wall with blocks which needed to have a "clean" shadow and was making other faces to split, I reduced the skybox, I applied your advices, I seen a slight reduction of the r_speeds, but ...

now I got a Exceeded MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES compil error ...

with no more details : I DIDN'T added more blocks, I just optimized the map, wtf is wrong again ? : ...