Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build Created 11 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy

Are they invalid brushes? Invalid brushes can sometimes become unselectable (this happens due to the fact that they are invalid). If they aren't invalid, can you give me an example map that has the problem so I can test it?

I always wanted something like that in Hammer PB! =P

Hey guys, I'm from Interlopers and just wanted to stop by to offer some feedback on hammer. I have been modelling for source for ages now but only just really started mapping. Hammer is an abysmally inadequate tool, but I love what you are doing with sledge. As soon as you have source support ready I'll be making the jump. I haven't been able to make a hacky workaround yet but I was trying to get a map from hammer to sledge or vice versa, you might have seen some error reports come through.

I wanted to offer a little usability feedback. Can we have an option to open the Object Properties dialogue only on alt+enter? When I select multiple objects by clicking them, I click fast enough to trigger Sledges double click event and, mid select, the object properties dialogue opens up, almost always on top of the screen I am working in. It infuriates me in hammer because it chokes your production rate by putting a ceiling on your click speed. I have to select everything slowly in order to not trigger that damn Object Properties dialogue. Perhaps an alternative would be to have the dialogue only pop up if you double click the same object, rather than allowing the first click to be on one prop and the second click on another.

Also can you make the esc button smarter on the dialogue? When the user is inputting data into a field, esc should cancel out of it, enter should confirm. When no field is in use, enter should confirm the changes made, esc should cancel out of the properties dialogue AND CLOSE THE DIALOGUE. I get irrationably angry at hammer because when I instinctually hit esc it just unselects everything I have spent too much time already selecting, and I am left with the big, blank, intrusive Object Properties dialogue. Curse that thing all the way to the depths of hell.

Also when the user is in flythrough mode on the 3d viewport and the Object Properties dialogue opens up (almost always by mistake), can you cancel them out of flythrough mode? I have been in sledge a few times now and the OP dialogue will open up over the 3d viewport, only to have my viewport try to keep the cursor restrained. This means I am trying to close the goddamn dialogue and my cursor is nowhere to be found, and I am now clicking on random things in the 3d viewport.

Again, loving it. The above points are things that annoyed me about Hammer that I noticed hadn't been changed yet in Sledge. The program looks ballin so far, can't wait for source support. Hey maybe you can even fix the cubemap problems we've been having for a year or so now.

OH MY FUCKING GOD! You made it Pengy! *-*

That text tool is really cool!

Fuck Hammer! SERIOUSLY!

Yeah that is really cool

Albeit really gimmicky but at least he's honest about it.

I still wish you would put the OBJ thing as a tool with better options than an import from the file menu. >:[

I don't think you could possibly not be honest about it. T'would be the definition of blatant lie I can see some stupid map where you've got rotating fan blades of Comic Sans, boxes in Impact of the word "box"... y'know, that sort of thing.

D:

What have you DONE to mapping? You've brought 90s web design into the world of mapping! Comic sans blinking scrolling letters and flashy colours all over the place... THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

@Black_Stormy: Thanks for the feedback. I didn't know so many people would dislike the double-click behaviour, a lot of people have mentioned that it's annoying. Whenever I have to use VHE3.5, the lack of double-click really annoys me

I can try and make the dialogs smarter when pressing enter/escape, I'm not sure how far I can stretch WinForms and still keep it working well. I'll take a look when I can.

I know about the issues with free-look mode and opening windows, I've got some fixes in the next version that should help. I haven't tested the properties window (I was testing the texture tool window instead), so I'll double check.

Let me know if you have more comments. Can you explain more about the cubemap problems? I'd be interested to know more about this so I can keep it in mind when adding Source support.

@everyone else: If I don't see massive tacky Comic Sans in every single map from now on, you're all in trouble!

Aye aye sir!

I've noticed on two or three occasions that when I open Sledge the ordering of the viewports will be different from what I usually use. Such as the top left being the top, bottom left being the 3D view, etc.

I have no idea why this is the case, afaik I've never changed these except to change them back to normal.

the whole concept of cubemaps has been broken since the steampipe update and there has been a bunch of ways to work around it. As far as I can tell the problem is that the compile tools (vbsp I think) puts in broken cubemaps when you compile your map. These are supposed to be default cubemaps so that you can preview the cubemap materials in your map with an arbitrary cubemap image, without having to run buildcubemaps every time. The problem is they just don't show. There are no cubemaps. Mappers need to go into their bsp using pakrat or VIDE and delete all the cubemap data, and then run buildcubemaps in engine again. But it's always problematic and never works consistenly.

Mappers need to run through one of many workaround solutions to get cubemaps working. It sucks.

I think this is a compile tools problem, and there are custom compile tools on the web that don't compile with the default cubemaps, to make the problem easier to solve, but it would be ideal to have a compile program that just loads in arbitrary cubemap images so we can see the values of our envmapped materials are ok without doing a bunch of crap.

Not sure how well I explained it here but those links should shed some light. If you can fix this you will be the source modding communities champion for years to come.

Here's the example map of invalid brushes. Seems to happen with couches and AAAtrigger rarely.
http://www.filedropper.com/rpcomplex

Stupid me; sent you the .bsp instead of the VMF.

http://www.filedropper.com/rpcomplex_1

Comic sans blinking scrolling letters and flashy colours all over the place...

So basically if you used Sledge to enter the colors compo, mysterious things will afflict children?

The couches I'm using are prefabs saved in an rmf and pasted into a vmf (the main map). They remain uncorrupted over reboots and saves on the .rmf, but for the map they corrupt after re-openning sledge. It is only these couple of prefabs (couches) oddly enough, and none others.

@Penguinboy:
Because the RMF version number Problem:

I got Worldcraft 1.1a,1.5b,1.6,1.6a,2.0,2.1 & 3.3 .
Would this help you?

I've been having so much trouble with the MAP format. It swiss-cheese a lot of the OBJ stuff I've imported. Since my batch compiler uses MAP format for compile, I have little luck with it.

What batch compiler are you using that demands a .map? (Atom's can handle rmf/vmf, can't it?)

I learned today Sledge does not like 90-segment arches, so may be switching to source for my minicompo entry. It could be the problem that it's also rotating and is set to glow on additive, IDK still testing

edit
Compiles fine with lights in the map, but with RAD disabled or using the -ambient 255 255 255 command parameter, I get the Allocblock full error on my map?

@Rim: Don't use the .map format, it's the worst option out of the three. .map forces the plane intersection algorithm to run every time you open the map, which can create a huge mess. Use RMF or VMF instead, and only export to .map when you need to compile. That said, if you can send me an example .map file that works well in VHE but not in Sledge, I will take a look at it.

Edit: Just realised you might be doing that already, but the exported .map file is no good. If that is the case, can you save an RMF and try exporting from VHE? If the VHE result is the same, you've probably hit a limitation of the engine. If VHE works fine, please send me an example map so I can investigate.

@CapT: doesn't like them how? If you don't provide more information (and example map?), then I can't work on fixing things. If you're just talking about the compile error, I think that would be related to the compile tools, rather than Sledge.

@Dmx6: I think that would help. Can you upload them somewhere?

I will try and run some testing on that when I get a moment to do so. Perhaps if something is figured out, I can actually use OBJ geometry for some stuff.

Ok, got a new release for you all. This release is almost all bug fixes and adding missing VHE features. I have lots more bugs that still need fixing, but this is what I've fixed so far:

Features

• "Text" brush primitive
• Option to disable/change the double-click behaviour in the 3D view
• Hotkeys to rotate selection by 90 degrees (N and M by default)
• Texture browser: when starting to type after opening, erase what's currently in the search box
• Autosave option to do the equivalent of ctrl+s instead of saving a new backup file
• Cancel free-look mode when switching between tools
• Option to not open the object properties window when tying to entity
• Always show the 2D brush dimensions in a visible location
• Hide yellow outline and texture axes when "hide mask" is enabled
• Hotkey for "create new visgroup"
• Easily accessable "new visgroup" button
• "Visible objects only" checkbox in the check for problems dialog

Bugs

• When opening a .map file, entity flags are not loaded
• When saving a .vmf file, some worldspawn properties like "skybox texture" are not saved
• WASD and other hotkeys being recognised when the main window is out of focus
• Browsing for sounds uses this format: "sounds/blah/something.wav" when it should be "blah/something.wav"
• Change the precision of the texture shift/scale values for Goldsource maps to 2 decimal places
• Change the behaviour of texture lock when resizing objects to be more consistent with VHE
• Invalid key/values message appearing in the check for problems dialog when opening files with point entities
• When using older compile tools (e.g. ZHLT), certain entities do not work as expected due to empty values not being trimmed when saving to .map
• Pressing enter in the selection tool with no box drawn causes an error
• "Show 2D Grid" option being ignored in the display list renderer
• Change the drag snap point to use the origin of selected entities, and render the snap point in the 2D views
• When renaming a map or switching between tabs, the title bar is not updated with the new map name
• Align to world/face sometimes applying the texture backwards
• "Paste special" is not retaining texture alignment correctly
• Hidden sidebar not restoring properly when unhidden after resizing/reloading the main window
• When free-looking, opening another dialog or tool window makes the cursor disappear
• General lagginess and slowness when using the VM tool for more complex objects
• RMF: group visibility is not saved across save/load
• RMF: group ID 0 was being created, causing the RMF format to ignore that group
• "Missing" textures cannot be selected for replace and mark
• The sphere brush tool creates invalid solids when "round created vertices" is enabled
• Texture tool can select hidden faces via the texture browser
• VHE4 shading in the 3D view is easier to see
• Shift-cloning objects in a group is moving the grouped object instead of moving the clone
• VMF: limit the length of key/values to 1024 bytes to avoid crashing VHE4 when it tries to open a saved file
• When pasting a group, the selection box behaves strangely
• It's easy to get two instances of the object properties dialog showing
• Hidden visgroup loads incorrectly after saving and re-opening (unable to unhide)
• VM Scaling mode: center of scale should be centered on selected vertices
• VM Scaling mode creating lots of invalid solids
• When box-selecting in the VM tool, midpoint vertices should not be selectable (replicate VHE behaviour)
• No help text on the camera tool explaining that the tab key cycles between cameras
• When grouping, the child colours do not change in 2D/3D views (check what VHE does after ungrouping)

Wow, fantastic work, dude. That is a lot you can tick off

Here are my collected old Versions of Hammer/Worldcraft:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-9279693/Worldcraft-Versions.rar.html

Wow, thanks for that, it should help when I get around to adding RMF compatibility. Just going through the old readmes of the various versions is really interesting. The box art for the commercial version of WC is a nice addition, too!

Worldcraft Pro?!

Worldcraft pro was a planned Version to sell the Editor for HL,Q1,Q2 the Hexen series after the Half-Life release.
Sierra canceled it before release.

How different was it from the normal hammer ? Or was it the same thing ?

PB
That aformentioned bug had nothing to do with the arches or the lighting, but could have been caused by using Hollow to build the skybox, OR having a really big skybox? (Will do more testing..)

I feel like I've used Hollow before in Sledge without any problems? Maybe not? I use hollow a lot in hammer 4 with never an issue afaik..

And to think I spent 3 hours yesterday trying to make and remake the Arch, and all along it was the fucking skybox! RAWWWWRRRRR!

I don't know if it's been mentioned, or if it's just me or what, but I'm encountering an odd phenomenon that it seems like I should mention. I'll try to detail it as well as I can:

Create cube.
Select cube and enter VM tool.
Select one or more of the lowest points of the cube in a view other than the top view. (Vertices or edges, doesn't seem to matter, as long as they're the lowest ones.)
Clicking and dragging those points in the top view makes the selected points slide all over the place. It seems to be that they're moving relative to how far you've moved the mouse from where you clicked, rather than moving the points with the mouse.
This effect seems to also occur in the other views as well, as long as the points are on the far side of the shape in that view. For example, when selecting two vertices opposite each other in the cube (not just on one side), in any one view dragging one point will work as normal (for both points), the other will slide in the aforementioned manner (again, both points).
Only seems to occur when the points are behind other points in that view. (Oddly, does not occur with the edges in the middle though.)
Tested with fresh cubes, in fresh maps and after closing and reopening sledge. Seems to happen reliably. Also tested with cylinders, same rules seemed to apply. Didn't test with others, but I'm guessing they're the same.

Also, when I opened a new file from the map I was working on, I could not change tools from the Select tool (Except to the Clip tool) in the new map until I closed the other map. I couldn't seem to repeat this problem just now, but I thought I should mention it.

Yikes Idk!

Only think I can think of is it has something to do with the grid? Does the jumping around happen if you are holding down ALT to disable snapping?

Otherwise have no idea! That other error you mentioned sounds like an old Sledge issue unless I'm mistaken, so make sure you have the latest version! maybe Windows Firewall or UAC is cockblocking the updater somehow?

Avast is blocking the download for me. lol now you know you're doing something right.

yeah same here. getting an avast block. Y U MAKE VYRUZ ON MY PYOOTER?!

Some AV programs use an annoying "popular downloads" filter. Basically, every program is marked as a "potential virus" unless Google (or some other database) says that it's a "commonly downloaded software". It's really stupid, because it makes distributing a niche tool like Sledge more difficult. Tell the AV program to download it anyway. If you're worried about viruses, upload it to VirusTotal before installing.

Nope, I'm definitely on the latest version, unless something blocked it so incredibly sneakily that it looked like it was downloading, says it's the latest version and has the latest version's features without actually updating.
Which doesn't seem likely

Does the jumping around happen if you are holding down ALT to disable snapping?

Yes.

Has anyone else tested it?

I seriously doubt it has a virus unless you or someone put one in sledge. Maybe this is a part of valve's master plot to maintain a monopoly.

I have Avast and it never stopped Sledge from autoupdating.

lol i was being totally facetious. how do i allow the DL though? i added sledge to the list of exclusions but it still gives me the "threat has been detected" dialogue box and i have no option to ignore or DL it anyway D:

Here's the VirusTotal results: Sledge.Editor.0.1.0.28.exe

Looks like Avast is marking it as a false positive, unless you think that all 53 other virus scanners are incorrect

No photoshop, no bullshit.

Derp.

Has anyone else noticed that thing I mentioned? I'd have thought if if were not just me people would run into it fairly quickly.

Basically, every program is marked as a "potential virus" unless Google (or some other database) says that it's a "commonly downloaded software".

Would that not just increase the risk that it could have malicious software coded in?

Jessie: CC your bug description along with any screencaps or whatnot to PB, and he will add it to the list of bugs to be investigated(if he hasn't already).

Well PB, does it or does it not have a dropper-gen?

Don't be stupid, of course it doesn't. If you're so worried about it, download the manual install zip file from GitHub and scan that before extracting it over the top of the existing files. VirusTotal says that Avast only detects the installer as a FP, not the manual zip file.

"Dropper-gen" is a generic label for "something that installs a program" and isn't the name of any virus. Avast is known for high FP rates on "-gen" detections. Some basic web searching will give you this same information.

I cannot prevent false positives on crappy AV programs, there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I'd recommend you use Microsoft Security Essentials, which is free, and a much better option than Avast or AVG.

I wasn't really worried, I just didn't know what a dropper-gen is. Now that you've explained it, I can see it technically IS a dropper-gen. I can't say I'm any more worried now than I was before your post.

Sorry, don't mind my snappiness. I'm just annoyed that false positives still exist :/

I honestly would recommend switching AV programs, though. I have used ESET for several years now (since AVG went to shit), and I've never had a false positive from it, ever.

...since AVG went to shit...

Indeed. When AVG got too annoying to use anymore, I switched to MSE for a short while, but didn't like it any better...

TBH, I've been "ridin' dirty" with no AV whatsoever for over a year, and zero problems so far..

Ive been doing that since forever ago. Pointless waste of cpu if i can just use my head.

Ewwww I'm not letting my computer play in the yard with your computers.

You're like one of those anti-vaccine parents.

I have had Avast for a few years now and it hasn't given me any trouble. It hasn't even messed with Sledge.