Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build Created 7 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Created 7 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Posted 7 years ago2013-09-22 11:26:27 UTC Post #315861
Well I'm just wondering if the .NET framework works different between SP2 and SP3.
It's just an idea because you seem to be having the most problems with the program.
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-22 13:57:20 UTC Post #315862
Well, it could be different, because in SP3 Microsoft changed a lot of things.
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-22 18:41:19 UTC Post #315872
@Tet & ciba:
Now I remember! I actually can't play Terraria on my PC (requires NET Framework 4), and I can't run Crafty (requires NET Framework but don't remember which version)!. Both pops up a critic error related to the NET Framework when I try to start them. So, seems that my problem IS actually the NET Framework. D:
Well... seems I'm fucked until my connection comes back again! รง_รง
Making PB works more for my issues is not a good thing though... :(
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-22 19:06:43 UTC Post #315875
So... you can't run windows update to grab SP3?
How bad IS your connection?
Would it be possible for an overnight download?
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-23 06:38:57 UTC Post #315879
As I said, I'm using an USB internet stick, so I can't download things with it just because, if I download too much, I become unable to connect more often in case my maximum allowed download size finishes. I only have 4 GB left approx, and I need this connection till the the end of the month before renewing the contract. That's my problem, not the connection speed. I actually download at 250 kb/s, so that's not a big problem, the problem is "how much I can download". That's the real problem with USB internet sticks unfortunately. :(

EDIT: And also, I'm not the only one in my family that uses the USB stick, my dad and my brother NEED to look at the emails for work every day, so if I expire the whole stick they'll kill me, lol.
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-23 09:10:35 UTC Post #315880
4GB for a week of internet? And THAT is a problem? I don't do 4GB in a MONTH. Unless maybe I download a game or something, but I generally don't...
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-23 16:01:09 UTC Post #315881
I would highly recommend budgeting that 4GB and upgrading your PC's software. SP3 is out for a reason. Its more secure, and (hopefully) your compatibility problems will go away.

I know the upgrade isn't going to be 4GB.

316MB, or .3Gb. So then you're down to 3.68 GB for the rest of the month.

The site also says the download is smaller through windows update.
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-23 18:09:33 UTC Post #315888
@SugarMan & Tet:
Alright then, I'll try to download the SP3.
The only problem is that I have to move my PC upsairs because I have it in my tavern, and the USB stick doesn't take any friggin' signal down there! <.< I have the renewal on the 8th of October. And I have to be sure that anyone of my family doesn't have to download something big before the renewal, so I can spend all the GB at the end of the month. :3
Sorry for all this shit but, you know, when you have familiars that doesn't know any fucking thing about PC/connections they keep saying: "DON'T CONSUME ALL THE USB STICK!" every single time I use it... even now... like I'm an idiot... and I'm 23 years old... capable of discernment... I feel ashamed. <.<
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-24 03:10:54 UTC Post #315902
But when you know enough, you can discern when those are just empty threats caused by lack of information and you can safely ignore them.
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-24 05:27:23 UTC Post #315904
Yeah... sure... Tell this to my family, I dare you! :P It's like telling them "IGNORANTS!" lol. xD Italian parents may differ from normal ones lol.

Anyway, I'm gonna try the SP3 asap and then I'll provide all possible informations to you, and especially to PB. :)
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-24 05:29:45 UTC Post #315905
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-24 15:32:37 UTC Post #315913
Ma cosa dici! xD

Only me and you are able to spam in every thread uh? lol

Stop! xD Back to IT (In Topic, not ITalian, meh)... NAO! u.u

IT: I'm gonna wait some days before downloading the SP3 because upstairs is a bit messed up so I can't place the PC in any part of the rooms atm...
So, PB, if you have to do Sledge updates, forget about me for the moment. :P
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-30 02:38:44 UTC Post #316008
Nitpick: I realised that depending on what brush type you select on the new brush toolbar, the options end up off screen if your screen resolution is not as high as Penguinboy's. Needs a scrollbar.
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-06 07:28:12 UTC Post #316102
I found out another thing. I am not quite a very detailed map mapper, but very simple maps start to lag. A lot. The OpenGL 1.0 renderer could use some improvements. And perhaps you could add a OpenGL 2.0 one. Most people have atleast this.
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-06 15:52:50 UTC Post #316113
Wow, great job PB.
Anyway what id like to suggest:
-Draw lines between path_track/path_corner and other entities that benefit from this in 3D view, also have a SHIFT drag feature like in H4 that makes it easier to make a path. (If this isn't there already i haven't tested Sledge myself yet)
-Basic entity info in 3D view
User posted image
The other 2 might sound crazy
-A WAD editor (delete/add) on the fly .wad updating just put new textures in and have them ready to use.
-Real time .wad updating, not sure how this would work, but it would be great to edit textures in PS and have them update in Sledge instantly like in 3ds max.
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-06 17:10:09 UTC Post #316114
if i could i would donate :)

will u add "displacements"?
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-07 02:39:40 UTC Post #316129
He said he would, a number of times already.
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-08 12:09:13 UTC Post #316142
I might have a couple of older PC's at my disposal in the next few weeks, hopefully I'll be able to replicate some of the OpenGL 1 problems once they arrive :)

@ciba43: Make sure you're using the "OpenGL 1 Display Lists" renderer, because the "Immediate" one is SUPER SLOW. I'll probably remove that one because the Display Lists should work fine for all GPUs. I don't think OpenGL 2 adds much in terms of improving performance (I'm not a graphics expert so I don't know how to do all the optimisation tricks...)

@rufee: Most of those are planned, and the real-time WAD updating is pretty cool but would require a bunch of trickery to get working properly. It's definitely something that I would like to do in the future, though! Drawing text on the screen is much harder than you would think, but I will add it at some point :)

@ninja: Yes, displacements will be added with the other Source features, but they will be supported in Goldsource by creating tetrahedrons when it converts to MAP format for compile.

@Stu: I plan to make the side bar more customisable - but for now, just collapse a few of the higher panels so you can see all the brush details :)

@All: Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I'm having trouble with model loading at the moment so progress is very slow. Patience is a virtue!
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-08 13:57:01 UTC Post #316143
Yeah had a brush with ogl and text, damn that bull be hard to ride :D
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-08 18:26:47 UTC Post #316144
but for now, just collapse a few of the higher panels so you can see all the brush details
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-09 13:03:30 UTC Post #316154
Just remembered that OpenGL's 2.0 version main thing is - shading. Like in HL2. Nothing really new.

Oh, and I was already using the Display lists. Not sure why it lagged.

Btw, I am pretty happy to know that a thing like this is making it's way to mapper community. Good luck on making it even better :)
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-10 22:39:23 UTC Post #316184
Damn, seems I'm stuck with Hammer at the moment. Tried Sledge with Wine again, and it works until I want to open a map. Creating a map works but I can't move around in the 3D view with my mouse, only with W A S D. Perhaps I'll mess around later and see what I can get working. Speaking of which, would it be possible for someone to use Mono for Sledge?
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-11 00:22:17 UTC Post #316185
Mono support is theoretically possible and I plan on running some tests with it once Sledge is out of alpha. Right now I am only able to support Windows OS but that will hopefully change in the future :)
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-11 02:26:03 UTC Post #316186
Sounds good! Want to see some images of it under Wine?
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-11 03:51:08 UTC Post #316187
Yes please!
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-13 08:38:52 UTC Post #316214
Ok so here are some shots:
User posted image
User posted image
User posted image
Interestingly enough it ran better yesterday. This Wine 1.7.4 update seemed to cause Sledge to not even start. After removing all .NET versions and reinstalling what I can (up to version 4.5) I was able to get it running. However, now it only runs properly under Windows Vista and even then it's still more buggy than yesterday. I can't even open up a new map due to the fact it uses Wine's terrible explorer clone now for whatever reason. If anything starts to function better I'll post some new stuff on it!
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-13 10:01:52 UTC Post #316215
Cool, thanks for sharing :)
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-18 02:00:13 UTC Post #316332
May i suggest the following shortcuts that I regularly use.
  • Holding spacebar in the 3D view temporarily activates freelook/navigate
  • double-clicking on an entity in the 3D view loads its properties
Forgive me if I'm reapeating myself.

Is there a location of planned additions? I checked github and I didn't see these in here.

Also I'm not quite sure if the compilation settings are right? I checked the "show log" button but no log appears and then my map doesn't seem to update.
hmm... gonna use the compilator for now then.
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 7 years ago2013-10-18 11:26:16 UTC Post #316339
- double-clicking on an entity in the 3D view loads its properties
THIS! Like on Source.
I'm not quite sure if the compilation settings are right
PB said that for now the compiling process has to be reworked, for now is basic. You have to use a compilator to compile your maps. A good opportunity to use Muzz's Compilator. :P

And, I don't know if this was already mentioned or if it's already present. But, is it possible to have the 3 grid views not rendered in Software renderer but in Direct X or OpenGL? :o
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-10 17:12:29 UTC Post #316729
Did a full check on Sledge: still very, very, super laggy.

I started Sledge, checked configuration - checked that I was using OpenGL1.0 Display lists. Started to create a hallway. Created 1st block 1x1. No lags. Now created the second 1x1 block. Lagging started. Actually lags the same as if I had opened a very large, detailed map at it. Strange.

Oh, and you could you make that all textures were arranged like in Hammer? Or just make a options box making it.
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-10 17:56:24 UTC Post #316730
Does sledge have the feature from Hammer where you can paste-special and increment the names and targets, or whatever.
Rimrook Rimrookโค๐Ÿ’›๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ’™๐Ÿ’œ
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-10 23:59:46 UTC Post #316733
Yes, but I have forgotten how complete it is. It makes names unique (if you check the box), but it might not be smart enough to increment numbers and so on. It doesn't update targets at the moment, if I recall.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-11 02:14:26 UTC Post #316735
Also, not to rush you or anything, but how's model support coming along?
I find myself suddenly inspired to maybe get a goldsource map going. Though I'm not yet sure of what it will be, aside from Co-op.
Notewell NotewellCall 141.12
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-11 13:36:36 UTC Post #316741
I'm waiting on some older hardware to reach me so I can test my graphics stuff on that. No point adding model support if nobody can use it!
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-11 14:43:49 UTC Post #316742
Fair enough. Need to make sure all users can run it.
Another feature request that may have already been mentioned (And I know something similar was suggested by rufee) is brush dimensions on the 2D grids when creating or resizing brushes, like in Hammer 4. The lack of that in 3.5 is one the main reasons goldsource mapping became painful for me. What can I say? I got spoiled by Source.
Notewell NotewellCall 141.12
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-11 14:44:03 UTC Post #316743
can u make a feature: when u press a button the 3d view goes full-screen
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-11 14:51:37 UTC Post #316744
Another thing I just noticed is that (studio) tags in the FGD don't add a browser button to the entity property in Sledge, which means you have to type in the filepath manually instead of searching and clicking the model/wav.
Notewell NotewellCall 141.12
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-11 22:14:48 UTC Post #316748
Yep, I need to add support for more data types in the properties window. I have a nice file browser ready to go for that exact purpose (works with PAK and GCF files).
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-11-12 03:30:17 UTC Post #316752
I have a nice file browser ready to go for that exact purpose (works with PAK and GCF files).
Do you know I love you, right?
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-01 18:51:26 UTC Post #316930
This is absolutely amazing! How did you learn the data structures behind the map/bsp files? You have got to point me in the direction where you gained this knowledge.
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-01 23:07:06 UTC Post #316931
Believe it or not, map file formats are one of the less difficult parts because there is some great documentation on all the formats out there:

MAP - Someone wrote a great paper on parsing and loading MAP files:

RMF - The person who made HLFix published a file format spec of the RMF format:

VMF - VMFs are plain text (basically JSON documents) so they are very easy to parse and load.

Fortunately I didn't need to decipher the BSP format, but there are a number of published specifications for it if I needed to do so (e.g. Goldsource, Source).

You can see the entirety of Sledge's map file format loaders here: MAP, RMF, VMF
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-01 23:40:09 UTC Post #316933
While I know Sledge is not going anywhere near OS X or Linux in the foreseeable future, I still thought it would be interesting to see how the source code would look if I ran it through the MoMA tool from Mono's site:

You can see the output here:
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-02 01:14:15 UTC Post #316937
Wow that's actually pretty good, though it looks like it has missed the HLLib stuff which is where I think the biggest problem is. I haven't tried compiling HLLib from the source so I'm not sure if it's linux/mac compatible.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-02 02:24:32 UTC Post #316939
Found this:

"SavannahLion of HLPD has ported my HLLib library to Linux. The port has been dubbed libhl and contains a HLExtract clone Slatch."

The link provided is dead now but thankfully has saved this page:

"Download Profile: libhl
libhl is a direct Linux Port of Ryan "Nemesis" Gregg's HLLib Windows library for accessing Steam GCF Files. This version is based on 1.1.6."

Hope you find this useful!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-02 02:28:02 UTC Post #316940
Download appears to be dead, but it looks like Linux support was added in v2.0.5 according to Nem's changelog. So that's a good sign :)
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 07:25:55 UTC Post #316941
That's great to hear! Anytime you need a Linux beta tester I'm right here waiting.
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 11:39:52 UTC Post #316976
For those wondering what the current progress is, here's a preview of what I've been working on:
User posted image
(Embiggened version)

Model rendering! Still a lot to do (it's super laggy atm), but it's getting there! Hooray :)
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 12:43:28 UTC Post #316977
Excellent!!! Did you have to learn the internals of the .mdl files to get this to work?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 13:12:28 UTC Post #316978
Notewell NotewellCall 141.12
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 13:31:19 UTC Post #316979
@froghair: Yes, and what a pain it was! Because I need to support many different versions of MDL (Goldsource + 5 Source variations), I couldn't just load the binary straight into a struct like the the engine would, instead it's a very manual process that requires almost 1500 lines of code :(

@Jeff: ...
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
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