Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build Created 7 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Created 7 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Posted 7 years ago2013-08-19 21:51:03 UTC Post #315086
Texturing is a bit weird. I'm used to the style of right-clicking faces to texture them, and I'm more used to right-clicking the brushes I draw out, rather than pressing Enter. Minor gripes on a really good editor. You 'ought to work on making tasks accessible by multiple different ways for people with different styles.
Dimbeak DimbeakRotten Bastard
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-19 23:37:43 UTC Post #315091
Hmm, right-clicking faces should apply the texture, but maybe there's a bug there that I haven't fixed yet. I've got the right click menu for creating brushes and entities in the list of bugs, so that will definitely be added soon.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-19 23:39:18 UTC Post #315092
I've just set up Sledge, and after configuring it I started a new map and it crashed. I accidentally pressed send error report before I filled out the box to say what I was doing, so if you just got an error report around 12:37am GMT that was mine.
Alabastor_Twob Alabastor_Twobformerly TJB
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-20 00:50:38 UTC Post #315094
Thanks TJB. Try updating your Catalyst drivers if you're on an older version, otherwise if that doesn't work the Internet is telling me that I need to make a small change to my shaders to get them to work on your drivers/hardware combination.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-20 14:08:03 UTC Post #315100
Hey PB, I've got some suggestions for you. It may help improve work times adding these features, if you agree:
  • Pivots: Like Unreal Editor (UEd) does, you're able to place "pivots" (snapped to the grid or not) which its function is used like an instant in-editor origin that gives you the ability to rotate brushes, models and entities (brushes, static meshes, meshes or actors in UEd) using that pivot point like a compass. Most used to make symmetrical maps or just in case you need to duplicate a lot of times the same object over and over without having to copy and paste a group of objects and place them by free hand, which sometimes they finish to go out of the grid even if "Snap: To Grid" is selected (like with multiple selected entities, if the grid size is not on smallest values, they snap off the grid and you have to select one by one and snap every single one to the grid hitting CTRL+B like a freak). For your information, you can see an example for Pivots by wathcing THIS UT2k3 tutorial exactly at 06.12 minutes, so you'll understand what I'm saying if you've never get into UEd. :)
  • How about adding some more buttons on the left menu? If you think about it, VHE got a lot less buttons than other level editors. For instance: you can add the Hollow button, and the displacements button (that directly opens the textures application window in the displacements tab, or if you want to make an additional menu for displacements, your choice), and some other useful buttons.
That's all for now. If I can get something else in my head, be sure I'll keep you informed, PB. :)

Keep it up!
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-20 14:57:37 UTC Post #315102
If you end up eye-raping users with mass buttons like any modern 3D package, add a search bar that can pull up the button or function you're looking for. This would also help people learn the software quicker without a tutorial or teacher.
Rimrook Rimrookβ€πŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™πŸ’œ
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-20 16:17:04 UTC Post #315106
At a minimum, clearly separating tools from functions/operations.
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-21 09:30:31 UTC Post #315127
It's actually possible? How can I do that? :o Or, at least, where can I found something that tells me how to do it properly?

Your're right, by the way. Also, I suggest to create a community team here on TWHL, and make tutorials for Sledge which can be downloaded/viewed on the official Sledge website and maybe also on YouTube (if PB approves, of course).
Yeah, this can be a good idea. As you can see, I clearly mentioned the Unreal Editor on my previous post, just because it has really a lot of options, and of course, its side-bar actually has category divided functions, which is a great thing for newbies (like me on the UEd :D)!

OT: UEd vs. VHE funny thing: On VHE, the "Carve" function is not recommended since it's better to make hand-made structures to avoid performance/bugs purposes. On UEd instead, you actually HAVE to carve to dig your level brush-by-brush! For a VHE mapper, this is almost a sacrilege! xD
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-21 09:43:15 UTC Post #315128
add a little inscription in each 3d window, for example: top, left, front etc..
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-21 11:57:10 UTC Post #315131
- Pivots: Like Unreal Editor (UEd) does, you're able to place "pivots" (snapped to the grid or not) which its function is used like an instant in-editor origin that gives you the ability to rotate brushes, models and entities
The Mad Carrot The Mad CarrotMad Carrot
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-22 02:11:31 UTC Post #315152

It doesn't exist. I've not seen it anywhere and the closest thing to it is a well made help file.

If you do the pivots thing, make it snappable to vertexes as well so we can rotate brushes like a hinge. It could prove useful when making anything that's pathed along organically.
Rimrook Rimrookβ€πŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™πŸ’œ
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-22 05:29:11 UTC Post #315153
Oh... I thought you're meaning that there is a way to do it, sorry but sometimes my english understanding fails! :D lol

Anyway, if you see the UEd from UT '99, is just a year newer than VHE or Wordlcraft, so its not that modern, but it has a lot of buttons instead of VHE anyway. :)
And, yeah, that's why I think pivots are helpful for VHE mapping.
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-22 09:27:39 UTC Post #315157
Off topic: Alberto's non-standard usage of the quote tag baffles me.
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-22 09:44:56 UTC Post #315158
I don't think Hammer needs a lot of buttons at all. It can have access to additional commands depending on tool chosen, no need to bloat the GUI.
And speaking of UT, camera and grid movement in it is absolutely horrible.
Stojke StojkeUnReal
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-22 16:22:46 UTC Post #315165
What "baffles" mean? xD
Well, maybe WE don't need them, but maybe someone with low experience may need them. :) And yeah, I agree with you with the horrible camera and grid movements. : Sometimes I can't even recognize where I am in the 2D views, lol. :zonked:
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-22 17:31:05 UTC Post #315171
baffles 3rd person singular present, plural of bafΒ·fle
Totally bewilder or perplex: "an unexplained occurrence that baffled everyone"; "the baffling murder of her sister".
I think he's referring to the way you put your @usernames in quotes. It is a little baffling. :P
UrbaNebula UrbaNebulaGoldSourcerer
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-22 17:42:43 UTC Post #315172
Tell me if you need any help with the site. I am pretty good at web design. You can check my portfolio here :

Other than that, I am available for beta testing and such.
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-22 20:37:50 UTC Post #315176
Oh, ok then. :rly:

Oh well... Now I got something innovative, and so people are gonna remember me for this! HA! :roll:

Or maybe DiscoStu are sniffing to much sugar IMHO :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :3

Disco Stu is goin' great with sugar! [cit.]
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-23 02:49:53 UTC Post #315178
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-23 06:23:44 UTC Post #315179
More more more or less!

Stop spamming! :o
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-24 02:10:43 UTC Post #315193
Another Sledgicon concept:

User posted image

Note: Forgot that my video settings were set to low when i took these.
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-24 04:45:20 UTC Post #315195
@Captain Terror:
Hey hey hey!

What are you trying to do here? Copying me? That's not good...

Haaa I'm joking mate! xD Pretty good work! Sadly, I can't compile Source maps since my Steam on the other pc is offline :( So I have to continue the work just via image editing only... <.<
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-24 15:02:16 UTC Post #315196
Hey, you know you can open vmf natively in Sledge, right?

The above pic is more of what i was trying for originally, i.e., more similar to the original hammer icon.

Oddly, this WIP also has the beginnings of a functional fy map--notice players in some of the shots--, and since i've always wanted to make a Hammerworld-themed level, i may continue it :)

I shared you the new vmf on dropbox, just in case you get a new computer or want to edit it in Sledge.
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-25 07:39:57 UTC Post #315205
In Hammer, I believe you can move the 3D view by middle-clicking it and dragging or space-dragging (same as 2D views).

My method for testing is to let my subconscious take over and be surprised when there's something that didn't happen as expected :P
In the vertex scaling mode, the up/down textbox always shifts value by 64. If you set it to a different number, say, 8, it will still step up/down by 64 and the next value will be 72. I was thinking, maybe 64 is too big a value and something like 8/16 would be more practical?
The above, in Hammer, scales only in the last 2D view you clicked, not in 3D (which is also good). Maybe there could be an option for that.
In the same window, if you click "reset to original", sometimes the radio buttons are also reset to "standard mode" but not the rest of the window if you had a different option selected.
I don't quite get how Bevel mode works, you bevel X units in which direction/angle? How do you control that?
I clicked "bevel" three consecutive times, this caused a "(not responding)" that lasted about two minutes (screenshot of the result). This caused a lot of errors in the list, clicking "reset to original" reset the brush to a standard cuboid but the error list wasn't completely cleared.
I can't set the grid size on the settings window, nothing happens when I do. Keyboard shortcuts do work, though.
Texture replace doesn't do anything.
I still insist on the settings window to be set to appear centered on screen because it tends to have part of it outside the screen.
I had a crash using the decal tool. Clicked the decal tool, then selected a decal, then clicked a brush in the 3D view. Clicking the brush brought up the crash report window, so you'll see the report. Submitting the report didn't close Sledge. This might be related to not having an FGD set, I've just realised I forgot to set it.
Error report screen still doesn't allow scrolling the error text, or selecting it to copy it. The error description input box ALSO doesn't scroll, makes it harder to re-read if you've written a long error description (I didn't, but I checked specifically for this). Make this window centered on screen too while you're at it :P
Nitpick: Moving the mouse out of the crash report window automatically removes keyboard focus from it (slight annoyance if you're typing in it)
I don't know what this is, but in nearly every application I use, if there's a text input area, CTRL-backspace backspaces the whole word (^W) but here, it just produces a little unknown-character rectangle. Don't know if this is a .net thing or what. Or even if anyone cares.
Clicking Bevel or Poke (or both) several times in a row causes hard processing that takes a long time but the results are pretty :P
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-25 14:57:57 UTC Post #315213
@Captain Terror:
Unfortunately, my pc can't handle Sledge atm... :( If you look in my older post of this thread, you'll see my error report and pc specs.
And if I actually need to see how the lights and shadows works in the architecture, I NEED to compile the map and test it in game. But, since with Source I can't and my pc can't handle Sledge (so I can't even port the vmf to an rmf and compile it for GoldSource -.-'), I must wait and purchase a new kick-ass pc before I get old and die... <.<

Anyway, that's a good idea! Time ago I was trying to create a rats map (let's say ANT map) with my PSP as a base floor for CS:S, lol, but someone made it before me for HLDMS, HL2DM and CSS. <.< So I gave up. xD
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 01:35:18 UTC Post #315282
I can't use Sledge anymore, it just crashes when I open up a map or try to create a new one. I think it might have to do with the wads I have loaded but it just doesn't seem to add up. I have even tried clearing the AppData and a clean install of Sledge, yet still nothing. At one point, I did have a crash before that let me send a bug report, so hopefully this can fixed.
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 06:00:19 UTC Post #315285
Sledge feature request: optional tool sounds
I already know you aren't going to like this, but how about add optional tool sounds, e.g.:
block tool will make hammering wood sound(think AOE)
clip tool will make a circular saw or table saw winding down.
vm tool, idk, maybe a welder?
It might be awesome, and it might be really annoying too. idk maybe just something to think about(i know you have bigger problems to figure out right now)
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 11:34:32 UTC Post #315287
^ You could always add a volume slider in the options menu.
Moaby MoabyMk. III
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 12:17:35 UTC Post #315289
Thanks for the bug reports and suggestions everyone*, I've totally burned myself out working on Sledge and need to take a break from it for a little while... Rest assured I will still keep working on it, just after I take a little break :)

*except your crazy suggestion CapT! :P
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 16:44:00 UTC Post #315298
The hell, Captain. LOL
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 16:58:01 UTC Post #315300
The sound would confirm what tool you hotkeyed, so you never have to look down ;)

And change the clip icon to a sawblade. C'mon, someone else have some Kool-Aid =P
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 17:05:53 UTC Post #315302
All the icons are clear enough as they are. Except maybe for the Brush tool, I keep thinking it looks like something related to textures.
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 20:10:49 UTC Post #315324
CT :
No way.

Nooooo wayyy.

Generic click sounds, maybe, but not welding and shit :L
Instant Mix Instant MixTitle commitment issues
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-28 21:49:09 UTC Post #315326
CT, that is just as stupid as adding achievements to Compilator (which I did and got scolded for).
The Mad Carrot The Mad CarrotMad Carrot
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-29 04:54:44 UTC Post #315333
Note to everyone: Never let Captain Terror develop software.

Why would anyone possibly want achievements for a map editor?!
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-29 09:29:36 UTC Post #315338
Heya all!

I've got the Sledge icons I promised. :3 Here's the download link:

There are 13 different icons in the pack. And I've also included a splash screen (in PNG and in BMP formats) when Sledge opens up if PB wants to implement a momentary splash screen image in the .exe (like in VHE).
If you have suggestions, please let me know. I'm still making some more of them, so the party isn't finished! :P

Hope you like it! :hammer: :crowbar: :hammer:
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-29 15:18:54 UTC Post #315349
Note to everyone but especially Penguinboy: I absolutely hate splash screens. I find them annoying because they generally get in the way of starting the program for no reason but to shove the program's name and logo in your face for a few seconds before letting you use it. I beg you to avoid them unless there is a real need for them (such as needing to display activity if the program takes too long to load, like, say, the Adobe suite).
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-29 15:56:55 UTC Post #315352
Checked out those graphics, is it ok to call it distinctly Penguinboy's Sledge Editor?

I thought it was just "Sledge"
Rimrook Rimrookβ€πŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™πŸ’œ
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-29 23:48:22 UTC Post #315354
I like your colour choices alberto, but these icons seem lower res than your original effort fsr? Either way, cool stuff ;)

BTW, added some more lights to my sledgicon. It still needs ALOT of work i know...
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-30 11:29:58 UTC Post #315369
I just created a splash screen in case he wants to add it, just for who doesn't look at the readme files and such, they can see who made Sledge, and let us see a sort of "Copyright" disclaimer to let people know who made the program (the last words under the title of the splash). :) I personally like splash screens, even Sony Vegas got one, and basically every famous program has one. Just think this: freelance programmers wants people know who made the program since they may not have the possibility to apply a copyright protection and rely to a creative commons attribution, maybe this could be PB's situation, maybe not, he tells us. :)
they generally get in the way of starting the program for no reason but to shove the program's name and logo in your face for a few seconds before letting you use it
And that's what they have to do. Let you see what you are using for the sake of being informed properly and make some advertising, like: "Don't forget what you're using and remember who made this". ;) :P
I thought "Penguinboy Sledge Editor" was a cool name (PSE and VHE is similar, like ZHLT and VHLT). The name you see in the splash is just a test since I don't have ANY permission to modify the original program name, I just tried to give PB an idea of a name concept. Valve is the creator, Hammer is the name of the program, and Editor because it's an editor (of course), so Penguinboy is the creator, Sledge is the name of the program, and Editor for the same reason. So "Penguinboy Sledge Editor" could be a more professional name imho, but PB decides obviously. Mine are just suggestions. :)
@Captain Terror:
Yeah they are 32x32, the previous icons was 48x48. I need to work on them a 'lil bit more, seems that making them 48x48 screws up the icons (visibility issues and serrated images). : I dunno why, I'll have to work on them.
Btw, thank you, Captain. :) I've seen your new Sledge logo image, cool stuff! How about making it red? Red is a more powerful color than blue, it tends to emphasize the Sledge powerfulness, in terms of "program possibility" (look at the splash screen I've made). Since the program is more professional than the basic VHE, the red color could be a good choice to emphasize the logo and the program itself. What do you think? And, of course: What do you think, PB? :)
What about adding the possibility for who works with multiple monitors to let them have the 3D view in one single monitor and the other 3 in the other monitor? :o Just speculating some cool things, eh. xD
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-30 12:16:07 UTC Post #315372
hmm texturing does not work like in VHE, it is not comfortable for me :(
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-30 15:01:54 UTC Post #315373
Made a test.
Frankly - it is cool stuff, i like how you have "integreted" old Arch drawing window in to some prefabs as pipe, working with it in my opinion is much easier.

And by playing around with all options found some bugs

By shift`n`drag rooms, lightning is lost

using multiple fgd`s makes dublicate entities in entitie list (ctrl+tn object) (okay, this even couldn`t be a bug, but in hammer multiple fgds works fine)

Add info about selected brush/entity (ou well, just don`t get angry if you are working for that at the moment :D)

Just read comment on this screenshot

That is all.

By the way - althought this is not final release, it is awesome, can`t wait till see the final version :) GJ

P.S sorry if my English is not as good as it should be :/
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-31 02:19:45 UTC Post #315382
To close the texture application window, you just change to the selection tool. It makes sense to me, otherwise you'd just be using the texture application tool without its parameter-setting window.

Maybe closing it could just take you back to the selection tool.
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-31 23:46:37 UTC Post #315389
You can hit Shift+A to toggle the Texture Properties window, just like in regular Hammer. (i kinda miss the little x to close too, even though i don't use it) :)

Texture Properties Bug
When you select a texture from the texture browser and try to apply it(left-clicking), it doesn't seem to work; you have to hit Apply button to select it?

I would recommend just making it behave like normal hammer. Also, same thing when i try to select a recent texture from the little sidebar, it should become my current or "active" texture, yes?(it doesn't)
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 7 years ago2013-08-31 23:58:00 UTC Post #315390
Is there a new build available?
Rimrook Rimrookβ€πŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™πŸ’œ
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-01 01:05:05 UTC Post #315391
I've still got a few small things to clean up before I release a new build, but hopefully there will be one in the next few days.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-01 12:21:53 UTC Post #315394
when i want to see what are the brush dimensions i cant get it

edit: btw. how do i put info_player_start? how to use the pipe brush?
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-01 17:36:53 UTC Post #315399
To put an info_player_start:

1. Hit ALT-P for the list of Problems
2. Find the entry for "there is no info_player_start in the map" and select it
3. Click "solve this problem" and an info_player_start entity will be placed in the map for you.
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-03 20:40:17 UTC Post #315448
Function suggestion:

Export selected objects.

For example, i select a couple of brushes and entities and click, for example, Tools > Export object

And it prompts me where to save an RMF with just those objects.
Stojke StojkeUnReal
Posted 7 years ago2013-09-03 21:17:48 UTC Post #315450
Alternatively Stojke:
1. Select the entire map.
2. Ctrl+deselct the brushes you want to export, and delete the rest.
3."Save As" vmf/rmf to a new mapname.
4. Doneski =)

Then yes, if you wanted to continue on the original map, you'd have to re-open the original vmf/rmf.

(idk if hammer makes a new tab when you "save as", but i don't think it does)
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
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