Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build Created 7 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Created 7 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 13:37:55 UTC Post #316980
Please forgive my excessive excitement, but model viewing was the last major thing I was waiting for as far as Goldsource is concerned. I am very pleased you're going to the trouble of getting it in there.
Notewell NotewellCall 141.12
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 14:57:00 UTC Post #316981
Damn, guy. How do figure all that stuff out. Insane. I wish I had your programming skills. Nuts. :nuts:
The Mad Carrot The Mad CarrotMad Carrot
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 21:48:05 UTC Post #316982
I couldn't just load the binary straight into a struct like the the engine would
Is there no way to use some sort of wrapper for it?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-04 23:51:34 UTC Post #316984
That's basically what it is.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-05 02:29:53 UTC Post #316987
Please forgive my excessive excitement
I misread that as please forgive my excessive excrement.
Oh god why.
Alabastor_Twob Alabastor_Twobformerly TJB
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-06 13:43:34 UTC Post #317005
@Penguinboy: That's really awesome to see MDL support! Can't wait to test this baby in Wine! Any idea when the next version will be available?

@TJB: I bursted out laughing.
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-06 14:27:59 UTC Post #317006
@Xylem: Not sure yet, but hopefully this year :)
I have 2 weeks of holiday for Christmas so hopefully I can get a version ready during that time.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-06 21:55:59 UTC Post #317007
Great news PB! :D Thank you. :3

Oh, what about that old pc that you've ordered for the OpenGL/compatibility tests? It is arrived? Do you need further help with Sledge on my shitty hardware? Feel free to ask, mate! :)
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-09 20:48:13 UTC Post #317046
Hate to keep pestering you with questions Penguinboy, but is there gonna be any sprite support in this version of Sledge?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-09 21:00:47 UTC Post #317047
Hammer 0.0001 had that, I don't see why he wouldn't throw it in.
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-09 22:03:16 UTC Post #317052
Not much documentation on the format perhaps?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-09 22:39:15 UTC Post #317053
If you let me know which entities are you looking for sprite support on, I will take a look at the FGD entries and let you know what I can do.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-09 23:32:41 UTC Post #317055
I mean in terms of when you load env_sprite and modify it. Though it would be nice to have some other of the FGD entries had sprites too...
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-10 00:40:10 UTC Post #317058
There are some modified FGDs that define some additional entity sprites (see the ones provided with the so-called "Hammer 3.5.2" custom builds), Sledge will support these FGDs and will render the sprite icons if you copy the sprites into the Sledge "Sprites" folder. These are for the same kind of icons as ambient_generic/light currently show in Sledge now. In the next build custom FGD models are supported too.

It would be really cool if someone could make an open-source set of entity sprites/models that I could use in Sledge - technically I shouldn't be providing the light/speaker icons as I do not own the copyright to them. Same goes for those custom Hammer build icons - though I might be able to contact the creators and ask their permission.

It would also be pretty cool if Sledge could provide some "enhanced FGDs" that automatically add extra sprites/models to the default FGDs. I might consider doing something like that later.

Actual sprite entities (env_sprite, etc) can be added soon now that file system stuff (PAK/gamedir browsing) has been implemented for model support. I will try to add it into the next build.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-10 04:39:57 UTC Post #317060
That's really awesome to hear! I think I might make some sprite icons, any requirements? Can they be a different format so they're easier to replace and all that good stuff (like PNG)?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-10 06:43:26 UTC Post #317064
PNG is fine with me but if you use SPR the icons will be compatible with Hammer too. Either way the actual reference will be in the FGD file, I don't know if Hammer will crash when it sees a PNG or if it will simply not load it. It's not hard to add PNG support to Sledge.

Requirements for Sledge inclusion would be:
  • 32x32 square size (I think that's what size the sprites are...)
  • CC-BY license (or anything more permissive)
  • Good quality (I'm terrible at graphics editing :P )
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-11 11:13:39 UTC Post #317073
I whipped up two quick icons, I may rework them later but for now have a preview and a download link:
User posted image

Some quick notes:

I released them under the CC0 1.0 Universal license, created Sprites for use in Sledge, and I also left in the .xcf files from Gimp. Hope they provide some use.
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-11 11:28:50 UTC Post #317074
Wow, that screenshot makes me want to make a darker theme for Sledge :P
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-11 21:58:54 UTC Post #317079
Throw in a checkbox :P
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-12 06:48:16 UTC Post #317081
User posted image
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-12 09:15:31 UTC Post #317083
OK, I gave my icons a quick update as they started to bother me:
User posted image
Same license and stuff as before just updated:
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-22 10:53:03 UTC Post #317211
Well, it took way too much work and still might be a bit unstable, but we have a new version! I really hope that model loading works right for everyone, please try it out and let me know.
User posted image
To set up model loading, make sure your game settings are correct. For example, for Steam:
  • Set up your steam directory in the "Steam" tab
  • Game: Half-Life
  • Base game directory: valve
  • Mod directory: valve
And WON:
  • Game Dir: C:Half-Life
  • Base game directory: valve
  • Mod directory: valve
Also make sure you are using the Hammer 3.5 (or newer). Sledge does not use any files from the Sledge program directory, it looks directly at the file system, and also supports PAK files, so no extraction or copying of files needed.

Full change list:
  • Support for model loading
  • Added file browser in the properties dialog for model keyvalues
  • Support for cameras and the camera tool
  • Camera navigation support in the 3D view (hold space + mouse buttons)
  • Right-click menu to create entities and brushes
  • The minimum OpenGL version for the OpenGL 3.0 renderer is now OpenGL 2.1
  • Various new options in the settings dialog
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-22 21:34:46 UTC Post #317216
Awesome. Seeing more of this makes me want to do some mapping.
* The minimum OpenGL version for the OpenGL 3.0 renderer is now OpenGL 2.1
You DO realise that this sentence is slightly contradictive, right?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-22 21:53:55 UTC Post #317217
Great news PB!

As soon as I can test it, I'll give you additional feedback and bugs report.
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-22 22:58:22 UTC Post #317218
@Stu: Yeah, I know :P
I changed the name to "Modern Renderer" in the code but forgot to rename it in the settings until I was typing that change list, and I was too lazy to do a whole release cycle again just to fix that one tiny thing :P
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-22 23:17:30 UTC Post #317220
This sounds really cool. I need to try this out.
ChickenFist ChickenFist<Witty Title>
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-23 02:46:56 UTC Post #317221
This is awesome PB, great to see you are still working on this!

Any plans on hiring interns to help you with this, so that we may have a reasonable ETA for Source/Oculus support? <runs>


ChickenFist: Hey man! =)
Captain Terror Captain Terrorwhen a man loves a woman
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-23 07:36:05 UTC Post #317223
Great new release! Still don't have any luck running it properly under Wine sadly.
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-24 00:24:43 UTC Post #317239
Finally decided to check this out after seeing that you've added the camera tool (as that is quite important to me), and after having a quick look at the program, there's definitely many things I really like, however I've stumbled upon a problem that pretty much prohibits me from using it to any proper extent - none of the hotkeys appear to be working for me, for instance pressing Shift+B doesn't select the brush tool - same goes for all the other hotkeys. I don't know if this is because I have a keyboard with special norwegian characters (æ, ø, å), which also means that some of the keys function in different ways than "standard" keyboards (to make a "?" results in a "_" etc.). Usually I can switch between input languages by pressing Alt + Shift, but this doesn't seem to do anything in Sledge. As such, I haven't really been able to explore much of the program yet, however I do have some input and suggestions (hopefully I haven't missed something obvious and as such make a fool of myself here):
  • Aside from the fact that none of the hotkeys appear to be working for me, the "Hotkeys" tab in the Settings panel is empty, and it doesn't seem possible to add any custom hotkeys? Is this something you intend to add in a future version? This is something that would be greatly appreciated, as I'm used to e.g enlarging and shrinking the grid size with Alt+S/Alt+A in Hammer, don't know if these hotkeys currently do the same in Sledge.
  • I LOVE the fact that you can change background/grid color for the 2D views - having a slight tan color (much like the one on this forum) is much easier on the eyes than the white on black/black on white color schemes from Hammer. However, as far as I can tell, you can't set a separate color for the 3D view?
  • I'm missing any mention of which viewport is what (front(y/z)/side(x/z)top(x/y)), as well as being able to change the 3D viewport to wireframe/flat/textured, from Hammer. By the way, would you happen to know what the default FOV of the 3D viewport is in Hammer?
  • Another feature I'm missing from Hammer is when something is selected, it displays the dimensions of the object(s) in the lower right corner (where the zoom/grid size etc. is displayed)
Texture browser:
  • I love how you can actually choose which wad file you wish to browse through without having to exit the browser, as well as being able to display the textures in different sizes. However, I'm missing the "1:1" size from Hammer, which is quite helpful.
  • When clicking on a texture (once, to select it), at the bottom it says "Name" and "Size", but nothing is actually displayed here, most important of which would be the texture dimensions.
  • The white border around the textures: would you be able to create an option to have it removed/only displayed on the particular texture that is selected? It is kinda jarring.
Texture application tool:
  • Bug report: if changing the FOV of the 3D view (in this particular case I used 90), sometimes you can't select a face (when using the texture application tool) that you should be able to select. See image: , if I want to select the top face I have to click at where the blue dot is; clicking on the red dot (or just below the blue one) will instead select the front-most face.
  • I really like how you can set separate functions for left/right click when using this tool, that should be pretty useful!
Camera tool:
  • As I mentioned in the introduction, this tool is quite important to me, due to how useful it can be when one wants to be very meticulous with texture application. However, in Sledge it doesn't actually seem to do much: when selecting it, all it seems to do is to in the 2D views, display where the camera is pointing in the 3D view; and it appears that all you can do with it in the 2D view is to move it around, and not actually move the "pointer" (very technical term, I know). It also doesn't seem to snap to grid. I think how the camera tool functions in Hammer is pretty much perfect: you can place it accurately on the grid as it snaps to grid size 1; you can place several cameras (or if you accidentally delete it, place a new one) by holding down Shift and placing one in the 2D views; you can move the "pointer" freely around and move both the camera and the pointer simultaneously by holding down Ctrl+dragging. I think the only problem is that it only snaps to grid size 1, and not the current grid size, so if you could be able to implement that (and all the features of the tool found in Hammer) then that would be greatly appreciated!
Whew, this turned into a motherload of text. Sorry if it seems I'm whining a lot, because honestly, from what I've seen so far, I think you're really on the way to making something truly spectacular here, there's loads of things I like - for example, I LOVE how customizable everything is (would be fantastic if there were even more options for customizing) - and if you can implement some new features/some missing from Hammer, as well as fix bugs (yes I realize it is still in alpha), then there should be no reason to use Hammer for Goldsource mapping anymore I believe. Also, sorry for making so many comparisons to Hammer all the time, but as that is what I (and I guess most users here) am most used to working with, I think it would be a good idea to implement most of the features/functions of that program into Sledge - if this happens, Hammer would become pretty redundant I believe.

Last but not least - great work! Looking forward to future versions.
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-24 02:08:12 UTC Post #317240
Woah, thanks for all your feedback, I'll definitely try to get all your issues fixed!

I tried changing my all region settings to Norway but shortcuts still worked for me. The hotkeys tab in the settings window will eventually let you customise all your hotkeys so I will work on that and see if that helps identify what the problem is for you. I didn't know about Alt+S and Alt+A in Hammer, currently Sledge is hooked up with the [ and ] hotkeys for changing the grid size.

At the moment the 'background colour' applies to both 2D and 3D views, but I can create a separate colour for the 3D background if you think it's needed. For the viewport labels and switching between wireframe and so on, that's a planned feature but it's not available yet. I don't know what the default FOV of Hammer is, it could be figured out by trial-and-error but I don't have the time for that :P

The missing selection dimensions in the status bar is a bug and I will fix it when I can. Same for the bug related to changing the FOV, I can't believe I made a bug out of something so obvious!

I'll work on adding the missing features in the texture browser.

For the camera tool, thanks for your explanation. I've never actually used it so I wasn't aware that it did all that stuff. Is there a tutorial or something that shows all the features of the camera tool in Hammer? That would be very useful for me. As for not being able to move the "pointer"... I tried doing that but the maths was too hard so I gave up for the time being... I'll try and approach it from a different angle so it works as you expect! I intentionally turned off snap to grid because I didn't think it was useful for cameras, but I will turn it back on if that's the expected behaviour :)

Again thanks for your feedback and please don't hesitate to continue telling me about bugs and missing features! I will try and get most of your bugs fixed in the next week or so as I am on holiday at the moment :)
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-24 02:41:56 UTC Post #317241
As far as I remember, if there's one thing the official help file for Hammer doesn't leave halfway through is the camera tool.

I haven't read it in a decade (!) so I apologise if I'm wrong and that part is also incomplete :P
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-24 02:51:07 UTC Post #317242
Thanks for the tip, I will check it out! I've never actually used it for reference because of how woefully incomplete and out of date it is :P
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-24 04:16:31 UTC Post #317243
No problem, it's the least I could do to show my appreciation for the project and to help out the development. Thanks for your quick response!

I had completely forgotten about the Hammer help file so now I was prompted to reacquire it (couldn't find the file by itself so had to download and install Hammer 3.4 again just to get the help file... bleh) - didn't realize one could cycle through camera views with PageUp/Down. Funnily enough I didn't even know one could place multiple cameras (or place a new one if the original was deleted) by Shift+dragging until tonight, about five minutes before I made my post here :P

Also didn't know it's possible to use Ctrl+F to split faces when in vertex mode - after spending 15 minutes on fiddling around with it, it seems to allow brushes that would previously be considered invalid after manipulating them, but I don't know how useful (or buggy) this is in practice. Is this already implemented in Sledge?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-24 04:36:59 UTC Post #317244
Yep, it's in there. There's also a "split face" button in the VM tool to make the feature more visible.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-24 20:50:58 UTC Post #317248
i don't know which window is top, left, front... ofcourse i find it out but can u add window description
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-30 01:07:16 UTC Post #317311
Time for a new release! This release fixes a number of issues that have been pointed out recently, including:

Viewport labels/render type:
User posted image
Hotkey customisation:
User posted image
Plus an improved camera tool and texture browser. Be sure to test it out :)

Full list:
  • Added viewport labels and type switching (textured, wireframe, etc)
  • Added support for customising hotkeys
  • Improved camera tool with support for multiple cameras, switching between cameras, and moving the look position
  • Added sorting, 1:1 size mode, and proper texture information to the texture browser
  • Added new setting for the 3D view background colour
  • Fixed a bug with the selection tool not displaying the correct box dimensions
  • Fixed a bug with selection not working properly when the FOV is not 60
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-30 09:29:39 UTC Post #317315
Pretty sweet release! Hope this functions better under Wine. What other awesome stuff can we expect in the next release?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-30 13:56:58 UTC Post #317316
thx for labels :)
btw. what was the standard FOV in vhe?
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-30 16:39:35 UTC Post #317317
Definitely testing this out once I get back onto stable internet. Liking how the list of features is shaping together, keep it up!
Notewell NotewellCall 141.12
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-31 01:09:18 UTC Post #317318
Has anyone stopped to think about just how unbelievably cool it is that this actually exists? I mean, holy shit.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-31 01:12:00 UTC Post #317319
Pebs made it, so it's disqualified from being cool.
AJ AJGlorious Overlord
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-31 01:24:47 UTC Post #317320
I'd usually agree with you since talent in Worms Armageddon is directly proportional to overall coolness and Pebs is atrocious at Worms, but this program is seriously the tits!

I love the texture browser so, so much. The ability to sort by the wad list at the top left is glorious, and the lack of BLUE in the transparent textures is a nice detail.

Would it be possible for a tickybox or an option to choose between displaying all frames of an animated texture, or just the +0 version, previewing the animation?
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-31 02:19:19 UTC Post #317321
Heh, thanks Archie! Though you seem to have selectively forgotten all the times I beat you at Worms...

Showing/combining animated (plus randomly tiling and toggle/button textures?) textures is an interesting idea, but reasonably difficult to implement because I'd want them to render in the 3D view as well (I probably wouldn't render the random tiling ones, though). I'll put it onto the post-alpha feature list.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-31 14:57:11 UTC Post #317324
For any quick icons penguinboy I'd strongly suggest downloading and using Metro Studio 2. You need to register but it's entirely royalty free, and can export to SVG and png and stuff. Quite handy for small icons.
User posted image
It's artistically specific to metro-style apps but i'm sure you can crowbar it in or something
Instant Mix Instant MixTitle commitment issues
Posted 7 years ago2013-12-31 16:44:33 UTC Post #317325
Holy wow, you work fast! Don't have much time to check everything out right now, but from the quick look I took, I love it! Hotkeys didn't work for me (again), but after reassigning every key, they worked perfectly - quite odd, but hey, it works! Also loving the camera tool, snaps to current grid size and everything! Thanks!

Quick "bug" reports though - there is no hotkey for the camera tool (Shift+C in Hammer) and it doesn't seem possible to assign one either - and some hotkeys are, by default, assigned to several actions (like Ctrl+H for both "Ungroup selected objects" and "Hide unselected").

I'll delve deeper into things in the coming days, I'll be sure to report back with any bugs/suggestions. Keep up the good work!
Posted 7 years ago2014-01-01 03:39:17 UTC Post #317331
@kaffikopp: Thanks for testing, could you send me your Settings.vdf file that's located at "%appdata%/Sledge" (pastebin is fine), this will let me see your re-bound hotkeys so I can try and diagnose the issue. I will be sure to fix the missing/duplicate hotkeys in the next version as well :)

@Instant: thanks for the link, looks quite useful, I will definitely check it out! In case you don't know about it, The Noun Project is another good source for icons:
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2014-01-02 03:59:10 UTC Post #317339
Certainly, here you go: (and in case you wanted the .vdf file itself: )

One thing I noticed after reassigning my keys is that "Shift" got changed to the norwegian equivalent "Skift"... don't know if this is of any importance, but if it is, one would think that changing input language would have worked too.

Anyway, here are some more thoughts/suggestions:

  • it would be nice if it was possible to copy texture names somehow, either from the texture browser or the texture application tool (or both) - for instance in the texture browser it could be possible to highlight and copy the texture name that appears at the bottom when you select a texture. This could come in handy e.g when using vluzacn's texturelight entities, as you won't have to look the texture up again and type in the name manually
  • maybe have an option to sort entities either alphabetically or by fgds (kinda like sorting through wads for textures)
Camera tool:
  • kinda annoying how, when using the camera tool, new cameras are placed by just left-clicking, as this can lead to accidentally creating new cameras when one is just trying to select a previous camera; would prefer Shift+Left Mouse for placing cameras (this could maybe be a customizable hotkey as well)
Vertex/Camera tools:
  • when in vertex mode, it should be possible to select the camera tool without exiting vertex mode, check how this works in Hammer if you are unsure what I mean: you won't be able to use both tools simultaneously, but the vertex points are still visible when using the camera, which is really helpful when one wants to place/point the camera precisely (especially with the yellow/orange "middle" vertices)
  • an option/hotkey for hiding/showing the toolbox that appears without exiting vertex mode would be great, as it can be kind of obstructive
Clipping tool:
  • unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem possible to cycle through the different modes (cut away one side/cut away the other/keep both) either by using the tool hotkey or any other way, so one is forced to delete the eventual unwanted "leftover" brush manually
  • perhaps have an option to adjust how far the camera moves when using the mouse scrollwheel in the 3D viewport
  • the "Forward speed" setting under the 3D Views settings tab seems to always reset itself to 1000 units/sec
  • maybe an option for mouse sensitivity in the 3D viewport?
  • if there isn't one already, perhaps a hotkey that enables the user to cycle between what the current 2D viewport should display (side/top/front)? (Tab key in Hammer), also: perhaps the viewport labels should have a solid background color or something, as they now take on the same color as the grid - when I changed grid color to light gray, the labels became hardly visible
  • Sledge doesn't seem to save the viewport configuration (which viewport displays top/side/front) when exiting the program, which it should (or at least the user should be prompted to or otherwise have an option to save it)
  • the Torus tool, when using the "Rotation height" function, seems to create invalid solids no matter what
Posted 7 years ago2014-01-05 04:23:39 UTC Post #317363
Is it possible to get some support like Propper integrated inside the program? Would pretty much make this for me.
Posted 7 years ago2014-01-05 05:57:45 UTC Post #317364
Well, it would be possible to use propper the same way as it is used now, and it may be possible to make a plugin that automatically does it (once plugin support has been added, of course).
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 7 years ago2014-01-05 06:54:08 UTC Post #317366
A thread that talks about Sledge has been featured in the first page of!


Congratulations to Penguinboy! :D
Alberto309 Alberto309weapon_spaghetti
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