Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build Created 6 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Created 6 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy Penguinboy

Posted 5 years ago2014-05-02 17:02:56 UTC Post #319149
ohh ok thanks! i shall use VMF from now on! on a side note:

is there a way to implement an "export again" (alt B in Hammer) option? It would remember your last export and overwrite the (in my case) .map file and you wouldnt have to go through the whole export - overwrite file? process.

always thinkin about savin steps!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-02 17:39:58 UTC Post #319151
I only just noticed the colour presets option. That's awesome! :D
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-02 19:09:06 UTC Post #319156
Yeah that's great, I immediately changed the world border to a less aggressive red :P
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-05 10:32:23 UTC Post #319227
Amongst many other things, im really digging the hide Null/bevel texture feature. Thanks for all the work Penguin.
I'm having issues with displaying sprites in the 3d window. If i change the scale of a sprite (x2, x3, x4, etc...) it will never enlarge the scale of the actual sprite in the 3d window; it will always be the same size. Works fine in-game tho (CS 1.6).
What FGD's are you folks using for CS?
So far i've tried and had the same issues with:
Always using zhlt.fgd from Vluzacn.
Also, i've dragged and dropped the sprites that came from VHE 3.5.2 into the Sledge sprite folder. I don't have issues seeing them, it's just that they don't scale.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-05 11:13:38 UTC Post #319229
Yeah, at the moment it ignores the scale of the sprite, I will add support for that later. You're talking about game sprites (env_sprite) right? As far as I know, the editor sprites (light, env_speaker, etc) don't have a scale...
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-05 11:23:38 UTC Post #319230
Yup, was referring to env_sprites, forgot to mention that. Thanks for the quick reply, i thought i was having trouble with them on my end.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-05 14:40:38 UTC Post #319234
I hope that sprites will not ignore scale in the next Sledge version. It would be more easy to place sprites :)
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-06 14:41:53 UTC Post #319257
Hello, great work Penguinboy and thank you for this awesome editor. I found a bug where if I try to move a light it disappears and the selection becomes very small. This happened to me in different maps created from scratch. This is in the latest version
The bug doesn't happen if I go to Edit -> Select all -> and then move everything.
Normal light:
User posted image
Light after moving it 1 unit:
User posted image
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-06 14:52:30 UTC Post #319258
You should really use texture lighting in that situation. I know for a fact that the light texture in your image has a light value in lights.rad already...

Bug report

When shift+drag cloning, my geometry is losing it's texture settings such as scaling and rotation. This wouldn't be so bad if you could select a face in 3D which has the settings you need and right-click new faces like you can with Hammer but that doesn't work either.

Oh and the sprite scaling that was already mentioned.

I dunno if model scaling can be shown in Sledge as well. That's one thing Hammer doesn't have that would be really handy for placing and clipping around env_model props with custom scales values.

Other than that, i'm lovin it. :D
UrbaNebula UrbaNebulaGoldSourcerer
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 03:36:52 UTC Post #319264
Was just doing my thing in Hammer when I suddenly realised what I was doing is going to be probably a couple times longer than Hammer's grid.
Do I recall talk of Sledge being able to support larger maps?
Jessie JessieLadytype
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 03:49:52 UTC Post #319265
@Urby: As a legal representative of McDonald's Corporation I must ask you to refrain from further using registered trademarks without written permission.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 04:12:32 UTC Post #319269
@petedoble: Thanks for the feedback. Can you wait until the next release, and then let me know if this problem is fixed? I made some fixes related to sprite bounding boxes and I think they might have covered your bug as well.

@Urby: Does it happen all the time on certain brushes? Can you give me a brush that loses its texture values when it is cloned? You can paste the brush from Sledge directly into pastebin, the clipboard is plain text.

Sprite scaling is in the next version! But what is this "model scaling" witchcraft you speak of? Is that a SOHL thing?

@Scotch: It supports whatever size grid you want. Just go into setttings > game configurations > entities > and change the grid size to whatever. It also supports specifying the map size in the FGD like Source does (put "mapsize(-4096, 4096)" at the top of the file), but be aware that an FGD with that syntax will probably not work in Hammer 3.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 09:08:50 UTC Post #319278
Perhaps this has been asked before, but is it possible to get a port for Android? I carry my tablet all the time, and a small mouse isn't such a burden to carry either. Would really be awesome to get shit done on the commute.
Striker StrikerI seriously doubt myself
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 09:17:25 UTC Post #319280
No offence but, please keep it PC only.
Striker get a laptop.
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 09:19:00 UTC Post #319281
This wouldn't be so bad if you could select a face in 3D which has the settings you need and right-click new faces like you can with Hammer but that doesn't work either.
It does, it's just not the default now for some reason - would be a good change, actually, pebs. There's currently a left click and right click actions list in the face editor.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 09:38:10 UTC Post #319283
@Striker: Sledge's current interface wouldn't work on a touch screen device - it would have to be a custom-made interface, which means that a lot of the code that does the important stuff cannot be reused. I don't think you can be productive enough on a tablet to make porting it to Android worth my time. The code is all in C# though, and Xamarin makes C# and Mono available on Android and iOS, so it is theoretically possible that someone could use some existing code to make an Android editor. I don't think that person will be me, though :P

Tablets are for consuming media, not creating it.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 10:28:30 UTC Post #319284
Just a small pet peeve... It'll be my last one :P
Any chance of introducing back "-estimate". The command is there, however the percentages are not shown during compile times. Tried using it in the additional parameter box and also in the Chart tab. I know it was very inaccurate, however, I like to do full compiles for almost everything and after doing a few of them for the same map, i could pretty much get a good idea of the time left by looking at the %.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 10:42:29 UTC Post #319285
I've noticed two minor bugs.

First, if while I'm looking around in the 3D window with Z, and I accidentally press the Windows key and open up the start menu (Windows 7), it keeps trying to pull the mouse pointer back to the centre of the 3D view. It's a minor one, because it can be fixed by pressing esc then clicking on the Sledge window, but it could potentially be annoying.

The second is that models only display the idle animation, and I can't see an option anywhere to enable them.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 13:11:46 UTC Post #319286
No offence but, please keep it PC only.
Striker get a laptop.
Why do you even care as long as Penguinboy is anyway focused on the Windows version? I do have a laptop rufee, but I don't carry it with me everywhere. Even if I do on commutes, it's way easier to just get on the tablet. For me, the laptop is just a desktop replacement.
Tablets are for consuming media, not creating it.
I object. Tablets, as computers and... hammers, are tools. It's a matter of how you use them, if you can efficiently. Tablets are for consuming media is marketing. Of course, more or less this is true. I never edited a document on a tablet. But it matters that I can do it if there's an urgency.

Seems like Xamarin has a free version but it doesn't let you use third-party libraries. This means I can't port Sledge to Android without money.

Oh well, it was a sweet thought...
Striker StrikerI seriously doubt myself
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 13:44:33 UTC Post #319287
I have a deep hatred towards mobile devices, in the fear that the PC might become obsolete one day.
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 13:57:31 UTC Post #319288
Oh trust me - it won't. I strongly believe this. The PC will disappear once we'll have contact lenses capable of immersing us directly in the virtual world, using projected keyboards and mouses or something like that.
But by that time( and I believe a good decade or more will pass until this), we'll get accustomed to this.
Striker StrikerI seriously doubt myself
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-07 18:11:04 UTC Post #319290
@Kachito isn't that a compile tools thing, rather than an editor thing?
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-08 04:54:11 UTC Post #319299
Yes, i think it is. I'm compiling with VHLT tools for CS; i can't work my way around Sledge to make it pop up the percentages. Tho, using the same tools, i don't have any issues with Hammers default compiler, Atoms compilator or Nems batch compiler.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-08 10:05:35 UTC Post #319300
I think it's because at the moment, Sledge reads line-by-line from the compile tools output, and the percentages are all written out on one line. It probably shows the percentages, but only after the task is 100% complete and it has moved onto the next one, which makes it somewhat useless.
I'll see if I can change it to show the percentages in a better way.

Edit: unfortunately it's not possible. The compile tools overwrite the progress with a carriage return to show the progress in place, like this:
10% complete\r
20% complete\r
30% complete\r

This updates the percentage on one line and looks nice in the console, but that output is never actually "written" anywhere. If you look at a compile log with -estimate turned on, the percentage is not actually shown. Unfortunately the compile log output is the same output that any Windows program will get, so it's not possible to grab the percentage values from the console.

I can add a setting to show the console window instead of showing the log from inside Sledge, that would allow you to see the progress, at the expense of being more annoying.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-08 12:28:10 UTC Post #319304
I prefer minimalistic UIs, as it is right now, Sledge works great for me. If i had to choose between one or the other, i would say don't change it. But if it's possible to add a toggle option for the classic compile console, maybe somewhere in the Options tab, that would be great for all those times when you go afk for a while and then come back to easily check on the % progress.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-08 13:09:54 UTC Post #319307
But what is this "model scaling" witchcraft you speak of? Is that a SOHL thing?
Ah yeah, it is now I think about it. Most npcs and env_models in SoHL allow you to assign new models and scale them. The model selected for an NPC is not showns in the 3D view, only the default and the scale setting is totally ignored in the 3D view.

Might be one for later if you're only focusing on Vanilla HL and expansions for now.

I also had a think about the cloned brush texture issue I reported and... well... let's just say leave it with me. I had a brainwave on the way to work this morning and I think it might just be me being a tithead.
UrbaNebula UrbaNebulaGoldSourcerer
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-09 06:14:40 UTC Post #319326
Here's something applicable.

How about selecting the faces with a certain texture applied to it. Say I wanted to change all of one texture, sure I could do that with replace, but now I would have to find that texture everywhere and select it by hand. This was something that was encountered recently.
Rimrook RimrookGoldsource Guru
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-09 07:36:19 UTC Post #319328
I'm fairly certain I recently added that functionality - when you have the texture tool opened, open the browse window, find the texture, and press the "select" button.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-09 10:44:49 UTC Post #319330
Rimrook RimrookGoldsource Guru
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-09 10:45:50 UTC Post #319332
I thought that's what the 'mark' feature was for?
Tetsu0 Tetsu0Original Cowboy
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-09 11:02:08 UTC Post #319333
It is, I just renamed it to "select" because "mark" doesn't make much sense in my opinion :)
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-09 13:47:41 UTC Post #319335
I just learned about the VM Scale thing in hammer. How this has been there and I could have used it a billion times in the past is aggravating. Please say all of the features in sledge are easily found.
Rimrook RimrookGoldsource Guru
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-10 10:47:49 UTC Post #319345
Sledge does not open .rmf files(haven't tested with other types) when double-clicking on them. It simply starts and loads the last map that was edited.
Striker StrikerI seriously doubt myself
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-10 14:12:31 UTC Post #319346
Not opening .rmf (and others) is a bug, that can be fixed by some simple code edit. It usually happens if you are installing a Windows 98 app for Win7 (small example). It's because Windows Double-Click feature opens file (in this case Sledge) with your .rmf path as an argument. Windows is sending this argument in an older syntax, which the program can't understand. So, this program (Sledge) starts, like nothing happened. I hope this explains it. As I said, this should be an easily-fixable bug.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-10 15:11:06 UTC Post #319347
This happens on Windows 8.1
Striker StrikerI seriously doubt myself
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-10 15:55:05 UTC Post #319348
That explains it even more. Win8 argument syntax is something that Sledge doesn't currently understand OR win8 just hates Sledge. You choose it.:D
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-10 16:50:58 UTC Post #319349
What changed in the arg system between xp, 7 and 8 ?
rufee rufeeSledge fanboy
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-10 20:06:22 UTC Post #319352
I don't expect Sledge to have compatibility issues since it's coded in C# :P.
Striker StrikerI seriously doubt myself
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-11 01:59:20 UTC Post #319355
Bug/usage definition (?)
Opening a map and clicking the void in the 3D window counts it as a modification and you get asked if you want to save. Even if you just clicked the void.

I'd consider clicking the void, selecting brushes, and even looking at an entity's properties without actually changing anything shouldn't count as changes to the map.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-11 08:06:34 UTC Post #319361
Tell that to a quantum physicist.
Striker StrikerI seriously doubt myself
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-11 08:46:11 UTC Post #319362
So Schrodinger's Brush?
Jessie JessieLadytype
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-11 10:18:35 UTC Post #319363
The automatic inclusion of WAD files in the same folder as the build tools isn't working. My build tools are located in "E:z" and that folder contains these files:
"zhlt" does not show up in the texture browser. If I add it manually in the game's configuration, it does.
Oskar Potatis Oskar Potatish̲͚̤̿͑̔̒̃̉̓ȋ͂͋̉̿̎͋̈́͏͚͖͇̭̩͓͔͝
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-11 17:02:12 UTC Post #319367
schrodinger's cat is not a valid form of explaining quantum physics, it was actually thought up to show how incredibly stupid quantum physics is if it were upscaled to macroscopic levels ( a cat obviously cannot be dead and alive at the same time)

Instant Mix Instant MixTitle commitment issues
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-11 23:24:57 UTC Post #319371
I've had to resort to using two multi_managers instead of one because triggering the same object does not work twice because Sledge thinks I'm just trying to change the value of the first trigger event rather than adding a new one... It's a great feature, but it needs a little tweaking. :/
Crollo CrolloTrollo
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-12 00:11:35 UTC Post #319372
I didn't know that Hammer allowed duplicate keys, I'll be sure to fix that.

@Striker: this is probably because I did the integration in a dumb way - I know what I did wrong and there's absolutely no reason why I should have done it that way. I'll make a change and hopefully that should fix the problem. It's not related to any incompatibilities in Windows.

@Rim: I'd love it if you actually gave Sledge a try :(
The VM tool window has a very clearly labelled VM scaling feature. I really hate how Hammer has so many interesting features hidden in shortcuts and other obscure locations, so I make an effort to try and expose those features in a more user-friendly way.

@Stu: that was annoying me, too! In the next version, selection doesn't mark the map as "unsaved".

@Instant: From what I have heard, as ridiculous as the thought experiment is, it could never be dismissed as the nonsense it was initially intended to be. The fact that it still cannot be disproved is a sign of how far we still have to go in research of the field. Of course, I get all my information from entertainment media, so take all that with a grain of salt :P (Japanese sci-fi absolutely loves Schrodinger's cat and I have heard it explained in great detail far too many times...)
Personally I like the many-worlds theory. I don't have any logical reason, I just think that it's awesome.
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-12 00:20:04 UTC Post #319373
Also for what it's worth, despite all my bitching this program is leaps and bounds ahead of Hammer and anything I create with it will be proudly displaying the Sledge badge.

So much of what is in here is so useful, it makes you wonder why 90% of this stuff was not in the original hammer editor.
Crollo CrolloTrollo
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-12 03:08:08 UTC Post #319374
I think if you name multiple keys the same, Hammer does something like this:

entity = value
entity_2 = value
entity_3 = value
entity_4 = value

But I don't know whether they are named that or only displayed like that. I get the feeling that if they were actually named like that, only one of them would trigger its intended target. Unless there is some weird hack in the GS engine that allows calls to differently named entities to trigger the same entity. Which would break a lot of things.

More bugs:
The texture browser sometimes remembers the second to last text filter used.
1. Open the texture browser window
2. Type something. Such as "ABC".
3. Close the texture browser without selecting a texture.
4. Open it again, type something different. Say, "XYZ".
5. Select a texture.
6. Open the texture browser again, "ABC" will be the filter.
Texture scale and shift only work with a face selected. In Hammer, you can input values and then apply them to a face without needing to have one selected. Changing these values with a face selected has an immediate effect, kind of making the "Apply" button useless.
Having right click set to "apply texture and values" doesn't apply the texture (and the values can't be set without a face selected) and instead brings up the crash report window.
Pressing Z and navigating in the 3D view with the texture tool open causes the view to shift sideways when clicking to apply a texture while the cursor is still captured in the 3D view.
The {rotatescrape and {mommablob decals from the HL default decals.wad are not rendered with their transparency.
Flip object left-right and flip object top-bottom don't work relative to the active viewport, unlike in Hammer. [edit] Never mind that. I think this is a bit better. I'll have to learn the new keyboard shortcuts.
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-12 08:04:37 UTC Post #319377
I just did some experimenting with Hammer and multi_managers, Hammer saves multiple keys like this:


And GS supports triggering in this manner. With the above example, the "test" entity will indeed be triggered 4 times. I'll add support for this format in the next version (Sledge will simply put "#1" on the end of duplicated keys). For now, you can add two triggers to the same entity by manually adding the "#1" on the end of the second key.

@Stu: thanks for the bugs. The "Apply" button will apply the selected texture to the selected faces. It will change the texture on the faces, rather than changing the scaling. (you can also double click a texture from one of the two texture panels to apply it)
Penguinboy PenguinboyHaha, I died again!
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-12 14:05:52 UTC Post #319383
I'll be testing sledge on a PC not really built for mapping / gaming (basically my work PC)

I'll let you know if there are any problems. :)
UrbaNebula UrbaNebulaGoldSourcerer
Posted 5 years ago2014-05-12 16:52:51 UTC Post #319387
Sledge changed a lot since version
Feels more like a modeling program now. :o

Oddly enough, I didn't see trimesh, whatever happened to that?
Rimrook RimrookGoldsource Guru
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