Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build
Created 11 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by
Penguinboy
Created 11 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by
Penguinboy
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-10 17:19:52 UTC
Post #332650
wasnt hammers source leaked? i thought thats what jackhammer is based on
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-10 19:13:20 UTC
Post #332656
To nitpick a little, Valve doesn't have 3.5's source code. The SC team received the 3.4 source code.
Hammer's source code has comments from developers that encountered some weird looking code that a previous programmer put in there, it's also written in VS6 and uses MFC, so it doesn't even compile due to non-standard code that causes fgd parsing to fail silently when fixed.
If i were them i'd open source this old stuff so people can keep it going themselves, they could use the publicity.
Hammer's source code has comments from developers that encountered some weird looking code that a previous programmer put in there, it's also written in VS6 and uses MFC, so it doesn't even compile due to non-standard code that causes fgd parsing to fail silently when fixed.
If i were them i'd open source this old stuff so people can keep it going themselves, they could use the publicity.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-10 19:20:58 UTC
Post #332657
I've been using Sledge again for my competition map, but the weird texturing behaviour still persists. It's really difficult to describe exactly what's going on, but it was my niggle right from the very first version of Sledge I used.
I can only describe it as a sort of disconnect between values and what happens when you right click to apply textures and values (which should be default behaviour as in Hammer, btw)
Changing rotation values seems to uncheck whether a brush is tied to world or face... sometimes.. and applying texture and values with right click seems to try to approximate the exact look of the source brush, rather than taking the standalone values.
So I'll highlight a whole area of my map - tie it all to world and zero all the shift values and rotation values, but then if I apply one of those brushes' texture and values to another brush, it won't be world tied or 0 0'd. It's like nails on a chalkboard for my OCD.
Sorry, I know I'm making a mess of describing this, but the truth is I don't know exactly what's happening. It's just not how Hammer does it and it makes me feel like I never know what values a face actually has, because it's never what I expect it to be.
I can only describe it as a sort of disconnect between values and what happens when you right click to apply textures and values (which should be default behaviour as in Hammer, btw)
Changing rotation values seems to uncheck whether a brush is tied to world or face... sometimes.. and applying texture and values with right click seems to try to approximate the exact look of the source brush, rather than taking the standalone values.
So I'll highlight a whole area of my map - tie it all to world and zero all the shift values and rotation values, but then if I apply one of those brushes' texture and values to another brush, it won't be world tied or 0 0'd. It's like nails on a chalkboard for my OCD.
Sorry, I know I'm making a mess of describing this, but the truth is I don't know exactly what's happening. It's just not how Hammer does it and it makes me feel like I never know what values a face actually has, because it's never what I expect it to be.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-10 23:40:43 UTC
Post #332662
If I knew what the hell I was doing, I'd help out with Sledge 
It all seems so complex though, with my limited programming experience...
It all seems so complex though, with my limited programming experience...
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-11 01:29:27 UTC
Post #332663
Solokiller's a fairly talented guy who somehow manages to code at the speed of light, is Sledge something that you'd have the motivation to try fiddling with at some point?
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-11 01:58:16 UTC
Post #332664
Wasn't Sledge supposed to get a full rewrite to target Linux and Mac ? I've read that somewhere that I can't remember.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-11 10:10:59 UTC
Post #332665
@Instant Mix
I really don't have time to work on yet another project
I can offer some assistance for debugging and perhaps some reverse engineering of Hammer, but beyond that i really don't have time.
I really don't have time to work on yet another project
I can offer some assistance for debugging and perhaps some reverse engineering of Hammer, but beyond that i really don't have time.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-11 14:31:58 UTC
Post #332666
Totally understandable! HLEnhanced + the model viewer + day job is stressful enough I'm sure. If anything I should really get off my backside and learn C/C++ , shouldn't be too difficult with other languages under my belt.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-11 15:54:21 UTC
Post #332667
My gripe is the bug when alt-right-clicking on anything other than a 90 degree angle; it does something weird with the texture axis'
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-11 17:31:15 UTC
Post #332668
I totally get where Archie is coming from. Right click texturing in Sledge has always been a little bit off compared to the original functionality. It wouldn't be much of an issue if it wasn't my primary method for texturing.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-14 23:22:31 UTC
Post #332712
i guess somebody on this forum developing sledge editor. i have a suggestion about it.
i dont sure maybe this is obsolete but. i was planning to make a brush car modeled from original one. then i realized it would be easier if i could place a background image to views.
i never attempted to do somtihng like modelling real one. would expert mappers agree this i dont know, but if it is possible and viable could you add that feature to sledge.
-why i need to model that kind of brushwork?
-i can motivate and practise when modelling with brush.
-also it would help with making complex brush from sketches.
this feature used on modelling.
http://isaacwilliams.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/blender-2-1-basic-setup.png
i dont sure maybe this is obsolete but. i was planning to make a brush car modeled from original one. then i realized it would be easier if i could place a background image to views.
i never attempted to do somtihng like modelling real one. would expert mappers agree this i dont know, but if it is possible and viable could you add that feature to sledge.
-why i need to model that kind of brushwork?
-i can motivate and practise when modelling with brush.
-also it would help with making complex brush from sketches.
this feature used on modelling.
http://isaacwilliams.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/blender-2-1-basic-setup.png
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-15 12:14:50 UTC
Post #332720
Just place a brush with a texture on it and use that as a reference.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-15 22:55:48 UTC
Post #332727
clever idea 
worth a try, it takes long to see what i can done with that. and i wonder are there any expert mapper doing stuff like this?
worth a try, it takes long to see what i can done with that. and i wonder are there any expert mapper doing stuff like this?
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-15 23:22:33 UTC
Post #332728
Just place a brush with a texture on it and use that as a reference.I've done this many times to create quick layouts from sketches.
It can be done for more complex brushwork, but if you need to get that detailed, you might as well toss a model in there.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-16 00:45:14 UTC
Post #332731
ok, thank you Tetsu0 for the answer. and also thank you Shepard62700FR for giving this idea
and also thank you Shepard62700FR for giving this idea
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-16 21:01:24 UTC
Post #332742
oh just noticed i guess there is an example of putting texture to model complex brush. it is done by "instant mix" for half-life reimagined, saw from the 4th page of compo 34 forum. i didnt aware of his work. what a coincidence
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-27 12:49:00 UTC
Post #332851
Apologies if these are reiterative!
Alt-P'ing in Sledge giving me
Quickly testing another map, I found the HLDM map was from some enhanced mod or coop thing, hence all the invalid keys/values
Also using entity report in sledge, I see the filtering works, but is there no way to shift/ctrl or select all of a type?
Alt-P'ing in Sledge giving me
entity has invalid key/value pairsQuickly testing another map, I found the HLDM map was from some enhanced mod or coop thing, hence all the invalid keys/values
Also using entity report in sledge, I see the filtering works, but is there no way to shift/ctrl or select all of a type?
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-27 13:29:15 UTC
Post #332864
@Archie @Tetsu0
I remember having texturing issues too last time I mapped, but I think I just suffered through manually aligning everything. Could you do the texture alignments in Hammer 3.x, and import back to Sledge(or would the importing bork the texture alignment?)
I know for the brush lathing-vertex scaling--for Subsanctum I just used Hammer 3.x instead of Sledge because it was faster.
I'm currently using CSGO SDK for the entity report functionality, to blanket select/remove all the entities I'm not using, and conveniently group others for my entry, then importing back to Sledge--it's working out ok so far. (I'd use Hammer 3.x instead, but I don't have it installed on this rig)
I remember having texturing issues too last time I mapped, but I think I just suffered through manually aligning everything. Could you do the texture alignments in Hammer 3.x, and import back to Sledge(or would the importing bork the texture alignment?)
I know for the brush lathing-vertex scaling--for Subsanctum I just used Hammer 3.x instead of Sledge because it was faster.
I'm currently using CSGO SDK for the entity report functionality, to blanket select/remove all the entities I'm not using, and conveniently group others for my entry, then importing back to Sledge--it's working out ok so far. (I'd use Hammer 3.x instead, but I don't have it installed on this rig)
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-28 00:23:00 UTC
Post #332866
I suppose i could always use hammer for texturing - i keep everything on grid as it is because i'm OCD.
I'd just rather not use 2 tools when I could use one, you know?
Sledge is almost there. I can taste it.
I'd just rather not use 2 tools when I could use one, you know?
Sledge is almost there. I can taste it.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-28 08:18:48 UTC
Post #332869
Hammer doesn't use wxWidgets, it uses MFC.
I actually investigated the wgl error, it happens when multiple maps are open and Hammer tries to shut down OpenGL multiple times. I think i fixed that in Sven Co-op's Hammer as well.
I actually investigated the wgl error, it happens when multiple maps are open and Hammer tries to shut down OpenGL multiple times. I think i fixed that in Sven Co-op's Hammer as well.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-28 10:40:33 UTC
Post #332873
@SourceSkyBoxer : WGL (also known as Wiggle) is the API that handle all OpenGL <-> Windows windowing interface system communication. The Cacoa (OSX) equivalent is CGL, the X11 (Linux) is GLX. Nowadays, people are using EGL (for OpenGL ES, OpenVG and Wayland which is gonna replace soon X11) or GLUT (1 code to dominate WGL, EGL, CGL at the same time).
Like Solokiller mentionned, the crash related to "wgl" is likely triggered because of an OpenGL context that can't be shut down or Valve forgot to loop over the opened maps.
Like Solokiller mentionned, the crash related to "wgl" is likely triggered because of an OpenGL context that can't be shut down or Valve forgot to loop over the opened maps.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-28 11:53:14 UTC
Post #332875
@Tetsu0
I hear ya brother. Besides a couple quirky things, I find Sledge far and away better than Hammer 3.x--or Hammer 4 for that matter
I hear ya brother. Besides a couple quirky things, I find Sledge far and away better than Hammer 3.x--or Hammer 4 for that matter
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-28 19:50:45 UTC
Post #332879
MFC has a structure that is very similar to wxWidgets, but it's an obsolete library for a reason. It uses outdated design practices like absolute positioning so try to avoid it if you can.
Posted 7 years ago2016-12-31 01:18:41 UTC
Post #332913
Would it be doable to somehow make point entities--and brush-based ones too I guess--selectable by selecting around or clicking the entity name in 2D?
Posted 7 years ago2017-03-27 19:38:21 UTC
Post #334123
BUG REPORT:
I can't set "Start Off" to a trigger_push brush. I select the respective checkbox and hit apply. When opening the entity properties again it's again unchecked.
I can't set "Start Off" to a trigger_push brush. I select the respective checkbox and hit apply. When opening the entity properties again it's again unchecked.
Posted 7 years ago2017-03-30 11:35:21 UTC
Post #334153
I found the last couple days Sledge is ignoring my visgroups, and compiling hidden objects using(using both normal and advanced compile). Was there and update or did i unwittingly change something?
Posted 7 years ago2017-03-30 11:48:03 UTC
Post #334154
Nope, nothing new. I remember that VMF had some visgroup issues, try using RMF instead? Unless you want multiple visgroups, then you're out of luck.
I'm working on Sledge again now after a long break so keep an eye out! (doing a big rewrite of stuff though so don't hold your breath just yet)
I'm working on Sledge again now after a long break so keep an eye out! (doing a big rewrite of stuff though so don't hold your breath just yet)
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-01 12:46:51 UTC
Post #334710
Since you're working on this again (yay!), I thought I'd do a better job explaining what's gonig on with the texturing:
clicky
So apply face and values should 1) be default behaviour and 2) apply the exact value of the source face (in this example 0, 0 shift). I don't know why it isn't.
It's much more difficult to explain what it's doing with world and face alignment. It doesn't seem to be predictably replicatable, but it's certainly not maintaining a 'world' alignment when applying texture and values. It's like it's trying to match the exact normal-projection of the source face which is... inverting the world alignment? Or something? I honestly have no idea.
Basically the problem is I don't feel like I know what alignment or values my target faces have when i'm texturing. I know it shouldn't matter - if it visually looks okay, then why bother? But all I can say is my OCD hates it and it's really putting me off using Sledge as my main editor, which I totally would otherwise.
I think potentially even keep the behaviour it has currently, but make it its own mode like 'eye-match source face' or something. Apply texture and values should just apply texture and exact values.
clicky
So apply face and values should 1) be default behaviour and 2) apply the exact value of the source face (in this example 0, 0 shift). I don't know why it isn't.
It's much more difficult to explain what it's doing with world and face alignment. It doesn't seem to be predictably replicatable, but it's certainly not maintaining a 'world' alignment when applying texture and values. It's like it's trying to match the exact normal-projection of the source face which is... inverting the world alignment? Or something? I honestly have no idea.
Basically the problem is I don't feel like I know what alignment or values my target faces have when i'm texturing. I know it shouldn't matter - if it visually looks okay, then why bother? But all I can say is my OCD hates it and it's really putting me off using Sledge as my main editor, which I totally would otherwise.
I think potentially even keep the behaviour it has currently, but make it its own mode like 'eye-match source face' or something. Apply texture and values should just apply texture and exact values.
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-01 13:43:34 UTC
Post #334711
Alt right clicking on a 45 gives you an infinitely stretched texture
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-01 23:04:33 UTC
Post #334715
Thanks Archie, I'll look into it when I can.
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-02 18:39:07 UTC
Post #334721
Also this was vaguely discussed before, but I've come up with an instance where it would be very useful again...
Would it be possible to get an equivalent of Ctrl + B (snap selected to grid) to work on an individual vertex level? So every vertex of the selected brush or brushes snaps independently to the nearest grid point? Like Ctrl+B, this would work with whatever grid size Sledge was set to.
Would it be possible to get an equivalent of Ctrl + B (snap selected to grid) to work on an individual vertex level? So every vertex of the selected brush or brushes snaps independently to the nearest grid point? Like Ctrl+B, this would work with whatever grid size Sledge was set to.
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-02 22:16:21 UTC
Post #334724
It's simple enough to implement something like that, but it would create invalid geometry most of the time unless you're working with simple cubes or tetrahedrons...
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-02 22:34:47 UTC
Post #334725
As a solution to micro-leaks, it shouldn't invalidate brushwork at the smallest gridsize. One of my recent maps is full to the brim with micro-leaks and off-grid vertices. No idea how it happened, but fixing it all by hand would take forever.
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-02 22:46:24 UTC
Post #334726
This is one reason why I really want to put scripting support into Sledge. Wouldn't it be great if I could give you a few lines of Python code that you could paste in to do that automatically?
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-02 22:49:44 UTC
Post #334727
Sign me up
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-03 02:33:59 UTC
Post #334729
The scripting thing sounds amazing. I might actually try to learn python if you do
Archie: do you mean you get invalid solids for any brushes made/cloned while at grid 1? If yes, would maybe copy/pasting the whole thing to a new RMF possibly fix?
Archie: do you mean you get invalid solids for any brushes made/cloned while at grid 1? If yes, would maybe copy/pasting the whole thing to a new RMF possibly fix?
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-03 02:42:09 UTC
Post #334730
I don't have any invalid brushes. I have vertices off-grid causing micro-leaks.
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-03 02:58:53 UTC
Post #334731
Decimal loss is a plague on mappers.
Hammer 4.x has per-vertex snapping with selected verts in VM mode, would definitely endorse Sledge adding that functionality. It's really a lifesaver when microleaks manage to happen.
Hammer 4.x has per-vertex snapping with selected verts in VM mode, would definitely endorse Sledge adding that functionality. It's really a lifesaver when microleaks manage to happen.
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-03 03:52:27 UTC
Post #334732
In Sledge, really?
I would get that with Source SDK all the time--although it didn't cause leaks afaik--, but I never had that problem in Sledge(I don't think?!). It's probably not related, but maybe if you're using the native VMF format, try switching to RMF instead, and see if it still happens.
I would get that with Source SDK all the time--although it didn't cause leaks afaik--, but I never had that problem in Sledge(I don't think?!). It's probably not related, but maybe if you're using the native VMF format, try switching to RMF instead, and see if it still happens.
Posted 7 years ago2017-05-03 08:32:44 UTC
Post #334733
??
No, we're talking about a solution. The cause isn't particularly important in this instance. Damage is done.
No, we're talking about a solution. The cause isn't particularly important in this instance. Damage is done.
Posted 7 years ago2017-06-27 20:13:17 UTC
Post #335773
Hey penguin! Good to see that you're still working on Sledge!
I dont know if you're aware or not, but a bug in the current build is that sprites are rendered mirrored. So all text on a sprite is backwards. Is there a quick fix for this in the options some where? If not, im gonna end up manually mirroring all the sprites and using the mirrored sprites to reverse the mirror that Sledge has
I dont know if you're aware or not, but a bug in the current build is that sprites are rendered mirrored. So all text on a sprite is backwards. Is there a quick fix for this in the options some where? If not, im gonna end up manually mirroring all the sprites and using the mirrored sprites to reverse the mirror that Sledge has
Posted 7 years ago2017-06-27 22:13:27 UTC
Post #335774
Thanks, I didn't know that! I'll make sure I fix it for the next version.
Posted 7 years ago2017-06-27 22:30:10 UTC
Post #335775
I never bothered switching to a new editor. I said, "I'm already used to Hammer, it doesn't matter."
Then I tried making a house like this:
When I finally got to a point where I needed to compile, huge gaps in the roof everywhere! Parts of the roof were distorted. It was a huge mess. All those off grid vertices killed it and since I don't usually make geometry that complicated I never had any major issues like that until now. So it lit the fire under my butt to download Sledge.
After setting up Sledge I recompiled, and it's now much better! Though, unfortunately, since I created the geometry in Hammer 3.5, it didn't fix it entirely, there are still two thin gaps in the ceiling including this one:
But I'll deal with that. Not enough people will play this map to be worth the time rebuilding the entire top of the house, the roof is not touching the void so it won't create leaks, and considering what an unsightly wreck it was before, that seam is nothing (that same seam looked wide enough to chuck a nade through when compiled in Hammer and every other brush seam was just as wide).
So all I can say is, thanks for your work on Sledge. I regret not listening to everyone on here and ditching Hammer sooner (only thing I miss are my 2D scrollbars but auto visgroups and a much improved texture browser more than make up for that).
Then I tried making a house like this:
After setting up Sledge I recompiled, and it's now much better! Though, unfortunately, since I created the geometry in Hammer 3.5, it didn't fix it entirely, there are still two thin gaps in the ceiling including this one:
So all I can say is, thanks for your work on Sledge. I regret not listening to everyone on here and ditching Hammer sooner (only thing I miss are my 2D scrollbars but auto visgroups and a much improved texture browser more than make up for that).
Posted 7 years ago2017-07-03 23:31:38 UTC
Post #335887
Sorry, but I have no intention of adding support for non-Windows systems. I just don't have the time or the motivation for it.
Posted 7 years ago2017-07-04 00:44:00 UTC
Post #335888
On the plus side, open-source means that you could add that support yourself! (In theory.)
Posted 7 years ago2017-07-04 02:38:16 UTC
Post #335889
Until Windows 10 becomes such a fuckup you're forced to move to Linux?
Posted 7 years ago2017-07-04 08:31:31 UTC
Post #335892
As I said, no plans to support any other OS so there's no point trying to support Mono. Best of luck with your own project!
Posted 7 years ago2017-08-05 09:27:55 UTC
Post #336731
If the project is going to be updated, I still want to see BSP support in the editor. I mean, that you can browse a compiled map and do some entity editing, like readjusting parameters of existing entities, deleting or placing new entities on a map (like monsters, weapons etc.). In other words, real-time map viewing and entpatch editing, without changing brushes and such.
Posted 7 years ago2017-08-05 12:44:36 UTC
Post #336732
Hey SSB, why are you always trying to push C# stuff in everything you say? I mean, it's your own opinion it's better, it doesn't actually mean it's better in reality.
It's not like they pay you to promote C#/OpenTK/Unknown project thing. Just add the support yourself if that's what you're trying to achieve, instead of pressuring other people to implement it for you. Windows is good enough for just about anything, use a virtual machine if OSX/Linux is a must.
And your loader thing isn't legal nor would realistically be possible. Or whatever else you're trying to talk about, I can't really keep up with it.
/topic
And honestly, I'm hoping for new versions of Sledge, it's about time I put J.A.C.K to rest. I don't believe a map editor should be payed for. :/
It's not like they pay you to promote C#/OpenTK/Unknown project thing. Just add the support yourself if that's what you're trying to achieve, instead of pressuring other people to implement it for you. Windows is good enough for just about anything, use a virtual machine if OSX/Linux is a must.
And your loader thing isn't legal nor would realistically be possible. Or whatever else you're trying to talk about, I can't really keep up with it.
/topic
And honestly, I'm hoping for new versions of Sledge, it's about time I put J.A.C.K to rest. I don't believe a map editor should be payed for. :/
Posted 7 years ago2017-08-05 19:15:22 UTC
Post #336735
To each their own.
Won't even try.
Won't even try.
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