Comments

"Shotgun lessons are next."

Plush shotgun shells? Those pack quite a punch. Either way, nice headcrab there. And wow, your son is growing up fast.

@Rimrook: Welcome. Welcome to ModDB.com. It's safer here!

Technically this article seems to be accurate, but the presentation can still use some work.

Some comments:

• divide the article into various paragraphs, as currently it's a big wall of text
• add a few example images to spice it up, text only is rather dry
• use bold or italic when emphasizing something, all-caps is regarded as shouting and makes the article look less professional (not that we're striving for a very formal style, but hey)
• I think it'd be cool if you did provide a working example map

Also, the following sentence seems self-contradicting:

The first value is the name of the map texture to apply the detail texture to, you need to rename this to the exact name of the texture you used in your map, eg, if you used the texture 'C1A0_LABW2' in your map you need to name it exactly that, it is not case sensitive and don't use the commas.

Exact same name... but not case-sensitive? I'd say it is case-sensitive. Commas? '' are single quotation marks.

Skals, drop the attitude. Instead, just say what's going wrong ("I'm still getting the 'slicksci.mdl is not precached' error").

JeffMOD, imageshack is a well-known site for uploading images to for free. I'd say links to it can be trusted.

Apparently, my portfolio and blog are worth 38K combined. That sort of undermines the reliability of that site, don't you think?

Bytheway, snarkpit.net is worth 330K.

Yarrr! = P

Did you happen to see the guys from Triangle Studios? There's 3 of us in Utrecht these days.

Your game starts looking nice bytheway. I assume the tank is fully controllable by now?

Thanks for the review, hlife-hotdog.

Aah, I see. Wow, good job for just 4 days then.

Oh, I forgot to mention that, but you can embed files into your map, including navigation files. Pakrat is a great tool for that, with it's auto-scan mode.

I just gave this map a try and it's not bad, not at all.

I think my youngest brother will enjoy this map, as it's small and to the point, immediate action. I do think hlife_hotdog has a good point about spawning in the basement: it does give the CT's somewhat of a disadvantage, but since they also spawn top-side now and then, it's probably not a big issue. Adds some variety.

Visually, the map was pretty good. Atmospheric, but not too dark. I do think some finer brushwork and texturing (alignment on the well, tall building using bump-mapped and unbump-mapped version of a texture) here and there would be good. However, it's just a small layer of extra polish that lacks here, and all in all, it's a pretty nice map. Good job.

Well, it's 2.5 years at most, but yeah, it's been a while.

What version did you still have? The oldest that I still have around is v37. The final version is v51.

Hmm, so it's a 'get started' nudge? Smart...

Nice work. TWHL is really improving these days.

I noticed one little problem on the wiki though: quite a few entity descriptions have empty li tag pairs in them, messing up other list items. Nothing a simple clean-up script can't handle, though.

Ah, ok. I'll give it another go after the update. Good luck with it!

Overall, it's a nice mod, but there were some moments that really annoyed me.

Anyway, visually it ranges from ok-ish (too narrow, cramped and linear parts, such as the flooded city part) to pretty good (other city parts - great backgrounds!, the convention center).
Technically, it also fluctuates: some parts were neatly done, others were buggy and easily broken (convention center - elite mask was pitch black? tv show room shields didn't open, nothing happened?).
The same goes gameplay-wise. Some parts were fun and had good combat and puzzles. Other parts were horrible (strider + sniper + assault afterwards, without even pointing at the RPG?!).

There's some points I'd definitely change:

• Leeches in sewers? That water is fairly shallow, while HL2 learned us that leeches only inhabit deep water. Don't break HL2 'rules', or if you do, make it obvious that you do.
• Instantly killing the player when he steps out of the shop early in the game is not fun nor necessary (just put a sniper somewhere, or a raid car with machinegun or such, that'll get the message across to stay inside without the frustration of an unforseen instant-kill).
• Providing endless supplies of manhacks can be extremely frustrating, especially when combatting soldiers and trying to find some sort of button or whatever else will open a door. That's when I see cheating as justified, heh. Kudos to ent_remove. Stupid manhack spawner.
• Provide more sense of direction. Some parts are just guesswork for a newcomer. Various area's don't focus on where to go next. With lighting, architecture and scripted events, a player can be 'guided' to a next area.

All in all, a fair mod, but some points just hold it down. Some fixes and tweaks here and there and I'd really enjoy it, but for now, I'm sorry, it doesn't really do it for me.

PS: Is the elite suit supposed to blind you? ...

Well, what kc8kjp said, providing directly playable maps helps a lot.

From what I've seen, the idea looks nice. I haven't compiled to test it in-game, that's your job after all, so I can't say much more on that. I should note that the level does look quite blocky, you may want to use some more angled rocks and generally, more natural shapes for the whole surrounding. I noticed you already slanted your rocks a bit, but the overall area is still very square. That's something I'd change if I were you.

Technically, there's a few things, such at the edges of the burning 'pool' that stick out. Read up on the clipping tool or the vertex manipulation tool if you want to tidy that up. I also noticed your maps are 'skyboxed': there's a big skybox arount the whole level. That works to prevent leaks, but the bottom of the sand and several area's that you will never see get compiled with the map, which takes some extra time and pushes your map to limits faster. Usually, people will create a more complex skybox, so, that only visible parts of the level are contained within it.

Nonetheless, it looks good so far. There's various things to improve on but that's ok. Good luck with this.

It's not that much of a problem: I create theme maps before starting the actual map too. However, I don't stick to these theme test maps, as I also create layout test maps, and when I'm happy with both, I start merging stuff and finalizing things.

Now that you've gotten so far with the detailing, doesn't mean you have to stick to this layout. But since it's generally hard to change layouts when a lot of work has already been done (more of an emotional difficulty I guess), starting from scratch and using the elements can be very helpfull.

Anyway, good luck with this.

Remove the top-hatch, I'd say. It's generally a very small, short 'sequenced' thingie, perhaps not something that ultimately fits well in a deathmatch map. I mean, gauss-jumping up there sure is a lot faster... Considering that, a ladder would probably be best.

Oh, as for clipping off the cliffs, it might disappoint some players. I got comments on Detention that one broken ladder that lead to a small platform (that I put there for decorations sake) disappointed people, because they could get up there with the gauss, but found nothing. Just something to keep in mind.

Good, on request I'll give some mean comments. Let's do it in Comments and Suggestions style (Questions and Answers).

C. The sound, while being a nice touch, is very repeatable and becomes annoying.
S. Use multiple sounds, spread across the map. More subtle and more variation.

C. The ATAT's gunfire is killing me! And those lasers look odd!
S. The ATAT's are too cool to be left out. Make them fire at the hangar in general, so their gunfire acts as a visual effect only. This allows you to tweak their laser blast effect some more, too.

C. The corridors are boring and lack cover.
S. Either shorten the corridors, or better, expand them into larger area's. Some more interesting connectivity in the map would also be good: there is one central area (hangar) with 4 routes leading to it, but the other two (shield generator & falcon) only have 2 connections, and in the falcon area, they're too close to each other. That breeds campers.

C. Health? Armor? Anything-but-the-gauss-or-grenades?
S. I understand doing a gauss-only map is a design decision, but I wonder if it'll make for a very interesting map, especially on the long run. Leaving out health and armor reduces the flow of players, because there are less items that attract them. Oh, now that we're talking about the gauss, a gauss-only map without rewarding gauss-jump tricks is pretty pointless.

C. All those Star-Wars things look cool, but what's their purpose?
S. Obviously, a falcon with only one entrance and nothing inside (everyone already has the crowbar) is useless. At least provide multiple entrances, and give players a reason to enter it. Whether that;s a controllable laser turre on top, or a nice load of batteries, is up to you (and some playtesting sessions).

C. It's pretty dark here.
S. Yes, it is, generally. While not too dark, it could've been brighter. And as Kasperg stated, more variation would be welcome too.

All in all, it feels like the map is based more on Star-Wars gimmickery than on an actually well-thought gameplay idea. The size of the area's is about right if you want to keep it a gauss-map, but it certainly lacks vertical gameplay. Some short dead-ends here and there and slowly opening doors (making connectivity worse) don't help either: the map feels somewhat sloppy through them.

Tip: create some gameplay test maps first, pretty simple in architecture and texturing, and run through them for a while to see which one feels better, more interesting. Playtest the result with some friends, preferrably with a variety of different people. See what they think about it, listen to their suggestions. It'll help you create a solid gameplay without costing too much time. Of course, you already place some placeholder brushes for important scene pieces like X-wings and stuff, so you don't have to break your head about where to place them without messing up the existing layout.

Perhaps it's a good idea to do so now. Copy the map into a new file, strip away all details and work on a bare-bone thing only. You can copy the details back later once you've got a solid layout to work with. Perhaps this workflow doesn't suit you too well, but it has helped me a lot (although it took some time to get used to it ;)).

Just a tip: this section of the Vault isn't as frequently visited as the finished section, or the forums. To generate more interest, post a thread in the forums. I don't know how many people here play GMod, but it's one way to find out.

About decompiling, there are about 3 ways to make decompiling harder, do a search on the Valve Wiki for it. It won't stop those that know how to circumvent these methods, but it's something.

One thing always made me wonder: why do some mappers leave out the lighting for performance sake? Have you tested the difference and if so, was it really that significant? This map never gets above 400 world polygons so if you can run the default CS maps fine, then it really shouldn't be an issue...

Anyway, about the map, personally I think there isn't much interesting to it, since there are so many maps of this kind and it looks so bland. I'm sure it can be fun for a while, but I think that after some time it becomes too predictable and people will go looking for another map to get some variation.

Well, let's talk about the visuals first then.

The map is basically unlit, which means it looks relatively bland because there's too little contrast. Add a light_environment for the sun/moonlight and some light entities for other light sources, or use texture lights. Light can also serve a gameplay function: bright area's are generally more attractive than dark area's, so by lighting some parts of the map more than others you can give players more sense of direction. For example, aim a spotlight on those wooden crossings, add some fancy light beam effects and players will instantly know there's something important over there.

The map itself isn't very interesting in terms of architecture: it's basically some appartment blocks. The containers don't belong on top of the buildings, small maintenance access 'houses' and other rooftop machinery would fit better.

Funny how the neonlight support beams consist of so many polygons: I got about 3000-4000 world polygons rendered on average, so I even noticed a small slowdown. I'd say, use a transparant texture instead (in case you don't know how to use them, you'll have to make that brush a func_wall and set it's Render FX (or mode?) to solid and it's FX amount to 255). Saves you some polygons, some work, and increases performance. It'll also speed up your compile time because those tiny brushes cause more work for the VIS process. Oh, the 'floor' was invisible because the max_viewable_distance is too low. You can change this through the Hammer menu: map->map properties.

As for the gameplay, I can't say much about it since it's been a while since I played CS (I never played much), but it looks pretty predictable to me. Which is probably the purpose of an aim map, but a little bit more cover and a few other places that players could pop up might be nice. Well, I don't know, players will probably like this anyway but I can imagine the map getting boring after a while because it's so predictable. Then again, I'm no aim_ player...

I'll give it a try however, after I redownloaded CS.

I believe it's unfair to bash a map simply because it's an aim map with standard textures. Which doesn't mean I think it's a great map, just that you should be given some feedback on what you can improve. We'll see.

I'm glad you actually extended Uplink, Muzzle. That came as a nice surprize.

As for the rest of Uplink Extended, essentially it's the same as Uplink, and I still see no point in recreating it with a higher level of detail. While playing, I hardly noticed any difference in the experience. That's both the good and the bad point about it: you captured the Uplink feeling pretty well, and at the same time you didn't add anything to it.

I think this is something few mappers grasp, and I believe it's one of the things that make the difference between a level-designer and a mapper, or content creator. I see this as a typical example of a mappers recreation. It's recreated as it was, with some relatively minor changes. It's not recreated in the spirit of the original, it does not try to be what the original represented. It just tries to be the original, with some polished edges and some more polies.
And rounded corners where you'd least expect them to be.

I can go on on a long rant about the importance of details in relationship to the whole, but I guess you already know what I'm going to say. And don't get me wrong, it's a nice mappack, and I applaud your motivation and the fact that you finished it.

Heh, the inspiration is visible at least...

Then here is not the place. This is where you tell how you feel or think about this map. Use PM.
Or rather, calm down and ignore such comments, or ask for clarification. Mad comments usually don't do yourself well (for example, your comment about my hallway(s) felt odd, dumb almost, and now it turns out it wasn't based on much at all).
As for clarification, after I asked for it it turned out Orph sees 4 stars as almost-perfect, and that's a stage your map hasn't achieved quite yet. It has good points, but also lacking points.

Similar hallways? Wha?

As if I create all my hallways like that, and as if I've created that many maps...

zeeba-G, Orphs maps have been made years ago. Of course they're HL-ish, in fact, your map is more HL-ish than this particular map. That isn't a bad thing per se. Fire traps and lava ramps are unoriginal? Of course. Everything has been done before in some way or another. That's not the point here, the point is whether they 'work' or not. A fire trap, how cliche it might be, can still provide good fun during play.

Actually, I think this map is ok. It seems to be built with gameplay in mind and it looks like it handles that well. The graphics are fine but feel a bit disjointed.

Ah, it's because of the models! Use the cycler or cycler_sprite entity in that case - harder to work with, but not annoying in the end.

Looks mighty fine, rowley.

The bomb and that slime were nice idea's, and I really liked that elevator shaft and the way you cracked up that office hallway - it feels very wide now while it's essentially just a fairly small corridor.

Of course I still got something else to say (:P)...
Performance was a bit... humm, those sunlight rays could've been double-sided, and movement in those detailed area's was a bit nasty, but that wasn't what the contest was all about anyway so good work.

Didn't I give you some tips on this in a forum thread? I'm looking at the map again (with it's skybox now) and it's still no wonder it takes an awfull long time to compile.
Skyboxing isn't only going to drive compile times even higher but it's likely in-game performance will suffer as well.

Ah, here's that reply of mine:
http://twhl.co.za/forums.php?pgt=1&action=viewthread&id=11107&pg=1

Hmm, I'm late with this map but here are my comments, made while judging the map:

1. Wadinclude please. It's easier to distribute that way and using the -wadinclude parameter only puts used textures from the specifiec .wad into the map, so it's probably smaller as well.
2. Interesting look, feels Unreal. Nice use of colored lighting, too.
3. Weapon placement feels a bit too uneven spread, item placement looks ok. Some weapons and items were put on stacks, I mean, very close to each other in niches, while the long hallways lacked weapons a bit.
4. Nice use of vertical combat, but most of the map doesn't take advantage of it. There's 2 or 3 places where you used this and those were the area's I think will be most interesting to fight in.
5. Feels like it's mostly corridors, combat is probably not very focussed. And with so many corridors, why isn't there a longjump? Corridors were too long and I think combat in those 'vertical' area's is much more interesting, so I would've cut down on the number and length of corridors and increased the amount of such combat area's.
6. Lacks sound. Some sounds can get annoying quickly so this wasn't the worst map in terms of sound, but a little ambience would be a nice extra touch.

Nice impression, but probably just average in gameplay. Too bad, as it has a solid style.

TECH STUFF (meant as advice):

• Compiled with old tools? -> switch to Zoners or more recent (sky wasn't auto-clipped?)
• Skyboxed. Absolutely no need for that, not skyboxing will save compile time.
• Small objects like light fixtures -> func_walls. Saves compile time. Also improves performance, though just a little bit.

Score: 7/10

Nope, there's a little more to this - the button opens the route to the end.

From my PM to Rowley (beware, long post):

Hey rowley,

I've taken a run down the map now. smile -

Well, first of all, it's a nice theme to go with and despite using HL textures, you pulled the theme off nicely. Congrats for that. I really liked the R2D2 health chargers and the nice style of those houses.
Obviously there's the over-stretched texture problem (it's just too much) and the somewhat simple lighting, but hey.

But, let's go directly to what I think is a big problem: the layout. The top is basically a kilbox++ (++ for the cover wink-wink - ;)), the lower part is an extended killbox (extended because there are some doors, all leading to the same half-circular path around the centre). With some more height difference and some better connections, I can see the lower part become something interesting, sort of an arena styled thing. The upper part... despite it's funny gimmicks, doesn't really lead anywhere.
There's another thing and that's the moveability. The narrow corridors hindered movement a lot - you may want to keep that in mind next time.

You already said in the maps comments that you were running out of resources. May I suggest trying some layouts first? Just some bare-bone crete-textured layout levels? It's the approach I've taken for my current HL2DM map dm_mudanchee, and I found the first 2 or 3 layouts to be quite worthless. Only after some playing I found a tight, well-flowing one that I later tweaked after playtests. Right now the map isn't finished yet, but the gameplay already stands and it's easy for me to spread detail across the map evenly and this approach also allows me to see where I can still put in details and where not.
The creation of Detention went actually very similar, although I believe that's more luck than wisdom. The first few attempts resulted in a meagre, all-too-similar looking and hard-to-navigate map. The final outcome, despite some flaws, plays well (looks a bit so-so but hey smile - :)).
So instead of letting your resources run out after detailing the crap out of your map, spend them first on the core gameplay, then use the rest for details (which often should be sufficient to get a nice map if you planned it right).
Your map actually reminds me of Sector Gamma. The fine-looking Chernobyl reactor level I once was working on. It looked fine and detailed and I've put a load of work into it, but in the end I got stuck on an unworkable layout, with way too few connections between the (badly planned) combat area's. A real shame - a proper planning would've saved the map. Luckily the textures served me well for The Playtest. smile -

So basically, I recommend starting fresh with a new layout. This map could then serve as a theme test map, something that gets you in the right style and mood and where you can pick elements from to put into the final map.
This is often an uneasy choice, but believe me - the result will be so much better and you'll be happy you did it.

A little more on layouts: I've learned a drawing method from a German Unreal article that lets you draw the core structure of a map very easily. It's basically drawing each combat area as a circle, and each connection between such area's as a line. Run through some good playing maps and try to make some schedules of them like that. Often, a map has about 2-4 main combat area's, with each area having at least 3 connections to other ones. Most connections only cover small distances, often no more than 2-4 seconds running. Longer connections usually aren't straight, or provide more cover or dodge possibilities.
Then there's the cover - some area's provide great cover against some entrances while being vulnerable to others, some entrances put you out in the open while others allow you to take cover quickly.
There's also height differences and their effect - the lower player should be given some advantage against the natural cover advantage of the higher player.
Also, think about warning signals and traps. In Unreal, the flashing sound of someone picking up a health vial told the experienced player someone was coming up around the corner. A shallow pool of water serves the same purpose. There's also the broadcasting version - when someone gets the RPG the sirens go off, for example.

More of a rant about planning, layouts and gameplay mechanics than about your map, but I think you can benefit from such an approach (and from the stuff I learned from that article wink-wink - ;)). The theme is fine, the layout is weak.

Good luck revamping this one and may the force be with you! wink-wink -
Captain P

The screenshot (I can't play it here at school, too) shows only a dead-end corner that's badly lit. I'd say, take a screenshot that gives a better overview and shows a more interesting part of your map. Reminds me, there should be a book written about the Art of Screenshots.

I'll check the maps once I'm at home.

I'd take away those teasings - they disappoint and confuse.

From the notes I made while running through this one (additional info is added between <>):

1. readme.txt...

<Many compo entries lacked here, they either had a readme.txt or nothing at all. Use mapname.txt instead so your info isn't overwritten with each new map that uses a readme.txt>

2. Turn off the annoying sound! Subtility, please! Well, at least it isn't forgotten...

3. Looks fair enough to go with, but not really astoundishing. Note the ugly shadows and the inivisble barriers, plus some fairly simple buildings.<br>
<Rimrook pointed out some of the smaller detail thingies that could've been done better. I'd like to point at the overall design - it's probably too large and open to put in too much detail, but anyway, you should put some time on that before putting a lot of time on the smaller things. Otherwise you may well find yourself wasting time on details your map can't support, or doesn't need in the end just because you neglected larger things>

4. Don't know if this will play well, but play it will. Everything takes place in almost the same area, and that's probably a good thing... Nice use of height combat.

<It's sort of an arena-styled map. Could be good fun, but I think you may want to spend some more time on map layout and design.>

5. Gameflow stings a bit though. Some ladders and area's are needlessly hard to get to. Almost as if this map is trying to keep me away from the fun.

<Take that machine that puts you up on the roof for example - it's very very slow and cumbersome to use. Personally I like a map that encourages fast movement and allows players to take some cover now and then.
That's where planning comes in too - you wasted an hour on a cool-working machine that finally didn't improve the gameplay...>

Conclusion: Overall, a meagre map, but it'll probably play nice, due to it's one single arena-style, and the height differences.

Good luck improving this.

@Rimrook: Changed your 'links' to links. It's possible to use html here afaik.

From the comments I made while taking a run through it (I added some stuff between <> for better explanation to you):

1. readme.txt ain't gonna get into my folders, thankyou.
<there were many maps that had either a readme.txt or none at all, instead of a mapname.txt.>

2. Good first impression. Solid theme and style (with the exception of the CS part).
<The CS part, though a funny touch, broke the theme a bit for me, and it was just a small single room with only two paths leading to it - pretty predictable combat there. About the theme, perhaps linking a testlab to an office isn't really normal... the map feels consistent overall but there are some grips to this.>

3. Some annoying hindrances: the CS players detract, the doors that slide open are slightly obstructing (what purpose do they really serve? what positive?). Some invisible barriers and weapons/charger placed in unreachable area's (a real letdown).
<I remember someone commenting on my map Detention that the broken ladder up on a buildings side really attracted them, but when they gauss-jumped up there and found it was just a 'detail', they were disappointed.>

4. Lack of height. However, looks like a fair layout.
<I would really add some more play-levels to this if I were you. The map feels 'low', too.>

5. Lacks ambient sound - the electric crackle is overused and gets annoying, while there's a few machines that could do with some sound.
<I assume it's a military surrounding by looking at the ammo crate and weapons outside, so why not add some gun-fire to the background? And some subtle (!) computer sounds and such... taking the electric crackle out or reducing it's volume greatly...>

Conclusion: Nice first impression, but some things just sting a bit. Not as good as could have been.

I like this style of overviews more than the 'proper' ones, as this shows landmarks better. I'll have a look later (little time now) but it sure looks interesting.

Heh, that was a funny idea...

Too bad there wasn't any 'play' to this, I'd like to actually run around like that, with NPC's reacting accordingly to you. I'd say, continue this.

Can't you just recompile then (and add lighting ;)), with those wads not loaded into Hammer? Or did you loose the source of this map?

It's not hard to believe this took a week, good maps can (and often do) take months.

But without lighting, I wouldn't call this finished. Maybe you don't care about that, but maps tend to look pretty boring without it. So, moved to the unfinished vault.

I fixed the download, for some reason my host caused trouble with the .zip file, so I uploaded it to TWHL for now.

Could be non-planar faces as well. Faces that aren't completely flat. Can happen easily when making cylinders sloped. Make sure the top edges have the exact same direction as the bottom edges. Yeah, how could I explain in other words...

I wouldn't call this finished without lighting...

moved to unfinished vault.

Hmm, yeah, that was sort of what I'm planning further for this map. It may take some time before I'll change it as I've got busy times for school (again), but especially in the lower arena's it lacks flow. I'm planning to add a connection between these two lower arena's, maybe another room should fit in there?

I'll also think about weapon placement - it didn't turn out so good during playtests yet.

Thanks for the comments.

I just removed some comments. You're only just spamming your own map's comments, MGM...

And it'd be good if you put up a proper screenshot. People like lighting, ya know.

It isn't hard to implement if you understand multimanagers, multi_sources and trigger_relays. It does cost some entities though because of the many text messages and all.

Just played it. I think it's ok for now, but it's quite rough on the edges.

Let's get this straight: I don't like horror settings or zombies and all. You didn't overdo it though, and added some enemy variation (even implementing a little story into it) so that wasn't too big of a problem for me.
So enemy placement is good overall, with some easy-to-kill ones and certain situations allowed for a little challenge (though with the amount of health kits and batteries, not a hard challenge, the map could do with less batteries).
Lighting is ok, with some interesting area's like on the screenshots. I liked the funny little boatlights too.
The architecture lacks, though. Overall shapes are ok but they're rough and the difference between the brushes and the prop models is a bit too striking for my taste - they don't work well together yet. Put some more time in finetuning your brushes.
The same goes for the level in general: certain things are too rough. The train moved awfully slow and had some bad texturing. It also looked odd to see a single passenger train part moving... Then there's the edge of the level. Clipping off an area for no other reason than 'this is the edge' doesn't feel right. Add a natural barrier or such to make it believable.
Also, what's that big wall in the middle of the level? It looks strange...

All in all, the gameplay is ok but it needs some work on the finer points to make the map feel more solid and polished. Good luck with this!